FPGA Replay Board

[SamuraiCrow]

Re:HDMI vs. DVI

Full HDMI have more than just audio added into the standard.  DVI is unencrypted video while full HDMI is encrypted to disallow people from just recording lossless video onto a BluRay burner.  The licensing and associated circuitry for HDMI make it undesirable for hobby projects since they would never be able to successfully defray the costs of adding the encryption circuits as opposed to high-volume retailers which are more worried about the outputs being used to pirate video outputs.

[Everblue]

Re:HDMI vs. DVI

Full HDMI have more than just audio added into the standard.  DVI is unencrypted video while full HDMI is encrypted to disallow people from just recording lossless video onto a BluRay burner.  The licensing and associated circuitry for HDMI make it undesirable for hobby projects since they would never be able to successfully defray the costs of adding the encryption circuits as opposed to high-volume retailers which are more worried about the outputs being used to pirate video outputs.

Hmmm doesn't the raspberry pi come with HDMI?

[psxphill]

Full HDMI have more than just audio added into the standard. DVI is unencrypted video while full HDMI is encrypted to disallow people from just recording lossless video onto a BluRay burner.

I think you're talking about HDCP, which can also be used with DVI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection
 
You don't have to have HDCP for HDMI though, it's just that bluray software on windows will check to make sure it's being used. If no software checks that HDCP is enabled then it doesn't matter if it is or not. Some computer monitors don't support it, the only thing you can't do with those is play bluray movies (unless they also support VGA and you have a VGA output).
 

Hmmm doesn't the raspberry pi come with HDMI?

They probably paid the HDMI license fee. The chipset in the raspberry pi supports HDCP, but it's not ever enabled. HDCP only really works with closed source software, on windows the bluray software also makes sure the drivers are WHQL signed so you can't hack the driver to disable HDCP but tell the bluray software that it's enabled. It's unlikely anyone will ever run closed source bluray player software on a Raspberry Pi or an FPGA Arcade, so HDCP is not a concern.
 
 

What about one of these (expensive) adapters?
 
[URL]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/StarTech-com-DVI-to-HDMI-Video-Converter-with-Audio-Video-converter-black-/380549230284?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item589a806ecc[/COLOR][/URL]

Yeah the expensive adapters will work, but at that price it would be cheaper for mike to pay the HDMI licensing cost.

[Everblue]

I think you're talking about HDCP, which can also be used with DVI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection
 
You don't have to have HDCP for HDMI though, it's just that bluray software on windows will check to make sure it's being used. If no software checks that HDCP is enabled then it doesn't matter if it is or not. Some computer monitors don't support it, the only thing you can't do with those is play bluray movies (unless they also support VGA and you have a VGA output).
 

 
They probably paid the HDMI license fee. The chipset in the raspberry pi supports HDCP, but it's not ever enabled. HDCP only really works with closed source software, on windows the bluray software also makes sure the drivers are WHQL signed so you can't hack the driver to disable HDCP but tell the bluray software that it's enabled. It's unlikely anyone will ever run closed source bluray player software on a Raspberry Pi or an FPGA Arcade, so HDCP is not a concern.
 
 

 
Yeah the expensive adapters will work, but at that price it would be cheaper for mike to pay the HDMI licensing cost.

I agree

[JimDrew]

I am thinking about an add-on SCSI interface, either software driven through the FPGA or using a real 53C80.  Everything for the Mac is SCSI based for external peripherals, so having SCSI is not an option for Mac emulation.

[freqmax]

The HDMI mode that allow HDMI+audio uses a different line coding. So the existing HDMI encoder chip on the FPGA Arcade can't be configured to enable audio. And the FPGA is too slow to make it happen.

But some of Xilinx newer versions has faster I/O so if the next version drives the "DVI" output directly from the FPGA without any encoder chip. A pure mechanical DVI-2-HDMI adapter and a core update is all that is needed to make use of HDMI audio.

As for HDCP, it has been "solved" for a few years.

So current incarnation can't fix this but newer Xilinx chips can solve the whole issue. And direct SATA connection can be done with the same I/O.

To stay within the licensing rules. There may not be any HDMI encoder chip and there may not even be a HDMI connector on the PCB. Not even pads for it (the last one asfair).

[JimDrew]

The FPGA Arcade requires a micro-USB cable to update the ARM firmware.  So, if you don't have one, go get one!    I need to try to find a DB9 female to female cable for my Amiga monitor so that I could test some things.  These are not exactly readily available anymore like they use to be!

[psxphill]

I am thinking about an add-on SCSI interface, either software driven through the FPGA or using a real 53C80. Everything for the Mac is SCSI based for external peripherals, so having SCSI is not an option for Mac emulation.

If you have a particular SCSI device you want to connect to it then you need SCSI connector (or at least a SCSI to USB/SATA/whatever converter), but whether that is for a mac emulator or you want to emulate an A1200 and hook it up as an IDE drive should be irrelevant. If the FPGA replay supported ATA/SATA then there should be no problem making devices connected to it appear to the emulated mac as a SCSI peripheral connected to a 53C80.
 
You shouldn't need a different expansion board and set of peripherals just because you want to emulate a mac or amiga or st etc. The idea is you can emulate a mac one minute and a cd32 the next, if you want to use real CD's on either then you shouldn't have to plug a different drive in. It would be terrible if trying to emulate an ST with an external drive required a new external board and an ACSI drive.
 
The majority of course will want to just emulate without any real peripherals and have them all virtualised from images on their SD card anyway, CD drives are likely to be the only real device most people would want to use. The majority would want to use a hard drive to store more images, not actually use the hard drive direct (although both options should be allowed).
 
 
 

The HDMI mode that allow HDMI+audio uses a different line coding. So the existing HDMI encoder chip on the FPGA Arcade can't be configured to enable audio.

That is a shame, those ATI DVI->HDMI converters would be a cheap way around the licensing issue if the hardware shipped as DVI but could be upgraded to generate DVI+audio later on by some unscrupulous individual.

[Lord Aga]

Also, the board uses a DB9 old school VGA connector for the VGA output.

Hmm, that's somewhat odd. Why not the more common kind ?

[dirkv]

 Also, the board uses a DB9 old school VGA connector for the VGA output.

Both DB9 male ports are joystick connectors, not for VGA output.
VGA needs a DVI to VGA adapter.

[Darrin]

Both DB9 male ports are joystick connectors, not for VGA output.
VGA needs a DVI to VGA adapter.

I was wondering about that.  My FPGA Arcade doesn't have a VGA port, just the DVI, S-video and Composite.

[JimDrew]

Yep, my mistake... referring to a 15KHz DB9<>DB15<>DVI adapter.  Some of the arcade games (like Phoenix) use a 61 Hz (yes, really) refresh so I am trying every monitor/adapter I own to see what will sync.

[Darrin]

Yep, my mistake... referring to a 15KHz DB9<>DB15<>DVI adapter.  Some of the arcade games (like Phoenix) use a 61 Hz (yes, really) refresh so I am trying every monitor/adapter I own to see what will sync.

I thought you might have been given some early protype for a sec  

I looked at the notes on the Pheonix refresh rate.  I'll be interested to see how that will affect my monitor via the DVI-VGA cable I'm using.

[psxphill]

Yep, my mistake... referring to a 15KHz DB9<>DB15<>DVI adapter. Some of the arcade games (like Phoenix) use a 61 Hz (yes, really) refresh so I am trying every monitor/adapter I own to see what will sync.

Yeah arcade game refresh rates are all over the place because they had little to restrict them, they ended up with whatever came out easier in hardware.
 
Home computers were only better because they couldn't guarantee you'd be able to change h/v sync enough, but they generally weren't really NTSC/PAL compatible.
 
The mismatch between display refresh rate and the games refresh rate is a problem for emulation, in some ways it's better to change the actual speed of everything so the two match up. Although this means you need to pitch shift the audio, but this is much easier than trying to resample the video at a different refresh rate.

[JimDrew]

I thought you might have been given some early protype for a sec  

I looked at the notes on the Pheonix refresh rate.  I'll be interested to see how that will affect my monitor via the DVI-VGA cable I'm using.

DVI->VGA appears to work just fine on any of my LCD monitors.  DVI direct connection does not work with Phoenix.  There is also a non scan-doubled mode (15KHz), so I was trying to connect a DVI->VGA->RGB converter board to see if an old Amiga monitor would work.  I don't think its worth the effort at this point.

It seems that most games use a standard 60Hz refresh with VBI, so I don't think this is too common.  You can look through the MAME info and see which games were non-standard.

I have to tell you, I am pretty excited about this board.  Once I got everything setup correctly, it's pretty simple.  I think a micro-ATX case is going to be mandatory.  It spooks me a bit to have everything laying out on the counter, with test leads and such everywhere.

[Darrin]

DVI->VGA appears to work just fine on any of my LCD monitors.  DVI direct connection does not work with Phoenix.  There is also a non scan-doubled mode (15KHz), so I was trying to connect a DVI->VGA->RGB converter board to see if an old Amiga monitor would work.  I don't think its worth the effort at this point.

It seems that most games use a standard 60Hz refresh with VBI, so I don't think this is too common.  You can look through the MAME info and see which games were non-standard.

I have to tell you, I am pretty excited about this board.  Once I got everything setup correctly, it's pretty simple.  I think a micro-ATX case is going to be mandatory.  It spooks me a bit to have everything laying out on the counter, with test leads and such everywhere.

Thanks, so the DVI-VGA connection I have "should" be good for Pheonix then?  Just don't to DVI-DVI?

I've been using my FPGA Arcade uncased and just sat on a wooden desk since I had it.  Hopefully my X500 case isn't going to be too much longer.