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Author Topic: FPGA Replay Board  (Read 824267 times)

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Offline matthey

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2174 from previous page: January 14, 2013, 01:01:28 AM »
Quote from: mikej;722350

1000 is still small numbers, Xilinx etc will not deal with you directly unless you are much bigger than that.


I bet you could do 10000+ with a Kickstarter at a slightly reduced price. The more cores the more interest outside of the Amiga community IMO. More console emulation like NES, SNES, Genesis, Neo Geo, x68000 etc. might be the biggest retro draw.
 

Offline ChaosLord

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2175 on: January 14, 2013, 01:11:48 AM »
Quote from: matthey;722359
I bet you could do 10000+ with a Kickstarter at a slightly reduced price. The more cores the more interest outside of the Amiga community IMO. More console emulation like NES, SNES, Genesis, Neo Geo, x68000 etc. might be the biggest retro draw.

The rules for hardware projects on Kickstarter got a lot more strict a while back due to so many fantasy imagination projects.

I think MikeJ is waiting until he has everything perfectly arranged to provide a complete success in 12 months.  Supposedly projects that take longer than 1 year get negative publicity and complaints.

I am not claiming to be an expert on how kickstarter works.  I just read a few articles about kickstarter while convalescing.

Plus you have to word things carefully.  And anyway he can't say anything about NES emu on kickstarter.  Its an instant lawsuit from Nintendo.  Even if the core exists and works perfectly he still can't say anything about it on kickstarter.  Do u want him to get assasinated? :crazy:
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline matthey

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2176 on: January 14, 2013, 01:24:34 AM »
Quote from: ChaosLord;722364

Plus you have to word things carefully.  And anyway he can't say anything about NES emu on kickstarter.  Its an instant lawsuit from Nintendo.  Even if the core exists and works perfectly he still can't say anything about it on kickstarter.  Do u want him to get assasinated? :crazy:


Amiga Inc and Atari have probably already sent cease and desist orders ;). Of course he would need to be careful about what he advertises and says publically.
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2177 on: January 14, 2013, 02:13:50 AM »
Rights can be bought.

Shall we call them copyright trolls? ;)
 

Offline JimDrew

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2178 on: January 14, 2013, 06:28:49 AM »
In the U.S. you most certainly could use the name NES as long as you recognized the name as a trademark in the information referencing it.  This is allowed under the fair use laws.

Emulations are not illegal.  I spent a great deal of time with attorneys back in 2000 dealing with this issue.  I had emulations that specifically named Apple Computer, IBM, Intel, Atari, etc.  I always gave full credit to trademarked names, and never had a single issue with any company trying to threaten me - and keep in mind that I had millions of downloads of the demo versions through downloads.com, so there was huge exposure.
 

Offline matthey

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2179 on: January 14, 2013, 06:58:28 AM »
@JimDrew
I'm a bit surprised no one ever sued you. I expect Apple was the most upset about an Amiga emulator with 68060 being faster than any Mac they sold for awhile. Did you feel like they deliberately added 68060 incompatibilities to MacOS 8.x roms to keep the 68060 from running? I have heard this rumor before and MacOS 7.x seems to be more compatible with the 68060.
 

Offline ChaosLord

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2180 on: January 14, 2013, 11:09:15 AM »
Quote from: JimDrew;722400
In the U.S. you most certainly could use the name NES as long as you recognized the name as a trademark in the information referencing it.  This is allowed under the fair use laws.

Nintendo does not respect fair use laws or any other US law for that matter.

Great Giana Sisters was allowed under the law.  Parodies are a protected right and have been upheld in countless court cases.  But that didn't stop Nintendo from crushing the Giana Sisters .


Quote

Emulations are not illegal.

Never said they were :)

Being a legal law-abiding citizen does not protect one from fake lawsuits.



Quote

  I spent a great deal of time with attorneys back in 2000 dealing with this issue.  I had emulations that specifically named Apple Computer, IBM, Intel, Atari, etc.  I always gave full credit to trademarked names, and never had a single issue with any company trying to threaten me - and keep in mind that I had millions of downloads of the demo versions through downloads.com, so there was huge exposure.

Did you have a Nintendo or Sony emu?

Anyway I hope he does not get in any trouble from fake frivolous lawsuits filed by greedy evil power-mad illegal corporations.

/me casts Good Luck++ onto MikeJ
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline ChaosLord

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2181 on: January 14, 2013, 11:14:53 AM »
Quote from: matthey;722404
@JimDrew
I'm a bit surprised no one ever sued you. I expect Apple was the most upset about an Amiga emulator with 68060 being faster than any Mac they sold for awhile.

If it looked like he was going to rake in 100 million $$$ then they would have filed a fake lawsuit on him to stop him.  But he flew under the radar by only making 10 million $$$ or perhaps a bit less :D


Quote

 Did you feel like they deliberately added 68060 incompatibilities to MacOS 8.x roms to keep the 68060 from running? I have heard this rumor before and MacOS 7.x seems to be more compatible with the 68060.

Sounds exactly like something Apple would do.  Remember Apple was in a PPC Alliance with IBM and Motorola and Apple actively wanted to murder off the 680x0 line, which they did.  They even rigged it so we can't EVER even get the v5 coldfires.
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline psxphill

Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2182 on: January 14, 2013, 11:47:51 AM »
Quote from: ChaosLord;722424
Great Giana Sisters was allowed under the law. Parodies are a protected right and have been upheld in countless court cases. But that didn't stop Nintendo from crushing the Giana Sisters .

I don't believe Nintendo ever sued, they said they would if the game wasn't withdrawn. So the game was withdrawn. Parodies are only protected in the US, so Nintendo would probably have won.
 
Quote from: ChaosLord;722364
Plus you have to word things carefully. And anyway he can't say anything about NES emu on kickstarter. Its an instant lawsuit from Nintendo. Even if the core exists and works perfectly he still can't say anything about it on kickstarter. Do u want him to get assasinated? :crazy:

That would be an interesting one.
 
1. They actively stop DS flash carts.
 
2. A lot of the NES games are available on Wii Virtual Console, so they could argue that it destroys revenue.
 
3. In the UK you aren't covered by any right to copy your NES cart onto different media, you technically require permission from the music company to rip your cd to play on your iPod. Some European countries do allow it, but not all. An individual is unlikely to get sued in the UK, because the court would see it as a waste of time. However going after someone who is profiting from copyright violations is possible. It wouldn't stop the kickstarter, but staying off the radar is probably a good idea to prevent import restrictions in various countries.
 
The landmark cases in emulation being legal are Sony VS Connectix, however Virtual Game Station was deemed legal because
 
1. it was in the US where you have fair use.
2. it had a legitimate use as the PC could play the game from an original CD.
 
It would be annoying if I couldn't buy one, in the same way I'm sure some people in the US are annoyed they can't buy from here http://www.originalstormtrooper.com/ For various reasons the guy who made the original storm trooper costumes can make reproductions and sell them in the UK, but he can't sell them in the US.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 12:03:51 PM by psxphill »
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2183 on: January 14, 2013, 11:54:45 AM »
Quote from: ChaosLord;722425
rigged it so we can't EVER even get the v5 coldfires.


How?
 

Offline psxphill

Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2184 on: January 14, 2013, 01:11:15 PM »
Quote from: ChaosLord;722425
Apple actively wanted to murder off the 680x0 line, which they did.

Apple just wanted to be competitive with PC's.
 
Motorola had already decided that the PowerPC was their future for computers. The 680x0 ended up as their embedded offering, which mutated into coldfire.
 
I don't know why Motorola made coldfire incompatible with 68000, that is the only decision I can't understand.
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2185 on: January 14, 2013, 01:44:37 PM »
Coldfire is supposedly faster or could be clocked faster because some overhead was removed so that a more "raw" core remained. Corporate decisions are not known throughout the history for their wisdom ;)

(Like when Kodak decided to keep the digital camera technology only for their high end segment in order to preserve the lucrative film manufacture business, and were then competed into bankruptcy)
 

Offline psxphill

Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2186 on: January 14, 2013, 03:27:53 PM »
Quote from: freqmax;722434
Coldfire is supposedly faster or could be clocked faster because some overhead was removed so that a more "raw" core remained. Corporate decisions are not known throughout the history for their wisdom ;)

I can see why some things might be removed, but they'd kept their ISA pretty compatible for years and then just started reusing opcodes. Using previously unused opcodes for new instructions and causing removed opcodes to trigger an exception would have been more logical.
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2187 on: January 14, 2013, 03:49:06 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;722449
started reusing opcodes


Ouch!
 

Offline JimDrew

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2188 on: January 14, 2013, 06:01:53 PM »
Quote from: matthey;722404
@JimDrew
I'm a bit surprised no one ever sued you. I expect Apple was the most upset about an Amiga emulator with 68060 being faster than any Mac they sold for awhile. Did you feel like they deliberately added 68060 incompatibilities to MacOS 8.x roms to keep the 68060 from running? I have heard this rumor before and MacOS 7.x seems to be more compatible with the 68060.

Apple didn't have a problem with the emulation.  I demostrated it to Scully and others at their facility in Cupertino.  I was trying to get Apple to make ROMs available for sale (by them) to make it easier for emulations to be made.  Their only concern was compatibility and how it was perceived.  When I showed them the A4000 running circles around their Mac Quadras their concerns were centered around the fact the Amiga was a better architecture.  :)  But, at no time did they ever attempt to stop what I was doing.
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2189 on: January 14, 2013, 06:54:11 PM »
Quote from: JimDrew;722477
Their only concern was compatibility and how it was perceived.  When I showed them the A4000 running circles around their Mac Quadras their concerns were centered around the fact the Amiga was a better architecture.  :)


Perception, perception and looks. Guess that summarize Apple ;)

Next core: Macintosh Quadra 630 (68040 at 40 MHz) :D