FPGA Replay Board

[nicholas]

,,,when its finished wake me up....zzzzzzz

Kickstart is all that is needed and the bounty requirements have been met already.

[vidarh]

Why is a kickstart ROM important? Couldn't new hardware use flash memory as a replacement? Obviously, legacy hardware would have limitation with a larger replacement that wouldn't fit in a ROM, but why would you worry about the size of the replacement for new systems?

ROM in the case of AROS is just used as a catch-all phrase for a single binary that contains all the basic functionality needed to get the system to work with apps that expect the same functionality as an original Amiga kickstart ROM, and that *can* be put in a ROM or flash (e.g. they don't try to write to anywhere in the image, and only uses memory that's explicitly been allocated from RAM).

I don't think anyone would try to produce actual ROM chips - you're right that using flash is a better alternative. Even for classics, a ROM replacement holding a flash chip would be better than producing an actual ROM, so it's easily updated.

[Iggy]

ROM in the case of AROS is just used as a catch-all phrase for a single binary that contains all the basic functionality needed to get the system to work with apps that expect the same functionality as an original Amiga kickstart ROM, and that *can* be put in a ROM or flash (e.g. they don't try to write to anywhere in the image, and only uses memory that's explicitly been allocated from RAM).

I don't think anyone would try to produce actual ROM chips - you're right that using flash is a better alternative. Even for classics, a ROM replacement holding a flash chip would be better than producing an actual ROM, so it's easily updated.

So why in the world do I keep seeing posts related to the ROM size limitations of specific Amiga models?

[HenryCase]

So why in the world do I keep seeing posts related to the ROM size limitations of specific Amiga models?

Are you sure it's not the RAM limitations you're seeing reference to? For example, if your OS (regardless of whether it's stored on HDD or on ROM) is too large to fit in the RAM of your computer (talking about standard functions not extras), then you have a problem.

[Louis Dias]

So why in the world do I keep seeing posts related to the ROM size limitations of specific Amiga models?

Some Amiga models didn't support Kickstart ROM's bigger than 512kb.  Most do.  FPGA-based ones will as well.  This forced someone to make a Zune-lite (aka Workbook) to make the ROM image smaller. IIRC

[JimS]

OK, I just reread that, and had an image of a bumper sticker withe the word "Amiga" using rainbow colors.

How about the word "Replay" using letters from the fonts associated with the major systems to have cores?

[vidarh]

So why in the world do I keep seeing posts related to the ROM size limitations of specific Amiga models?

Because those limitations are limitations you'll also run into if you try to replace the kickstart ROM with a tiny "drop-in" board with a flash chip on, as well as limits you'll run into if you use any number of solutions that remap RAM copies of the kickstart. It's also a limitation of Minimig, for example - don't know about the Replay board.

So in other words, if you want to be able to use the kickstart images on real classics or Minimig's without more complicated new expansions you have to restrict the size of the kickstart image whether you want to actually put it in ROM or not.

[Iggy]

Because those limitations are limitations you'll also run into if you try to replace the kickstart ROM with a tiny "drop-in" board with a flash chip on, as well as limits you'll run into if you use any number of solutions that remap RAM copies of the kickstart. It's also a limitation of Minimig, for example - don't know about the Replay board.

So in other words, if you want to be able to use the kickstart images on real classics or Minimig's without more complicated new expansions you have to restrict the size of the kickstart image whether you want to actually put it in ROM or not.

That's a frightening hardware limitation.
No wonder I've always settled for only partial compatibility.

I'm sure they'll figure something out.

[mikej]

There is no "ROM" in the FPGA Amigas, the kickstart image is copied to DRAM at boot. You can split the 32MByte of memory in any way you like between RAM and ROM.
/Mike

[Hattig]

There is no "ROM" in the FPGA Amigas, the kickstart image is copied to DRAM at boot. You can split the 32MByte of memory in any way you like between RAM and ROM.
/Mike

I think it was more an issue for the original Minimig with 2MB RAM! But assuming that all Minimig owners have sorted out a Kickstart, and that not many new Minimigs will get made with FPGAArcade and NatAmi arriving on the scnee, I guess we don't need to worry so much about Kickstart sizes in future.

[Iggy]

I think it was more an issue for the original Minimig with 2MB RAM! But assuming that all Minimig owners have sorted out a Kickstart, and that not many new Minimigs will get made with FPGAArcade and NatAmi arriving on the scnee, I guess we don't need to worry so much about Kickstart sizes in future.

So, again, this is an issue with legacy hardware only.
Guess what guys, legacy hardware really may finally be completely obsolete.
(get ready for the, I'm only a collector/retro hobbyist posts).

"I like hamburger b 'cause I'm into pain!"

[jj]

I love lamp

[TheGoose]

ROM in the case of AROS is just used as a catch-all phrase for a single binary that contains all the basic functionality needed to get the system to work with apps that expect the same functionality as an original Amiga kickstart ROM, and that *can* be put in a ROM or flash (e.g. they don't try to write to anywhere in the image, and only uses memory that's explicitly been allocated from RAM).

I don't think anyone would try to produce actual ROM chips - you're right that using flash is a better alternative. Even for classics, a ROM replacement holding a flash chip would be better than producing an actual ROM, so it's easily updated.

Well explained. But this makes me want a FLASH ROM for my classics more so than really needing AROS ( which is largely about getting free from copyright ). Something like what DENEB offers. If I have the power / control to pick and choose binaries (boingbags, whatever) to execute at boot up, why do I need AROS? it's "AROS" not "AROM". I want to be free of the ROM constraints, not the OS...

[Iggy]

Well explained. But makes this me want a FLASH ROM for my classics more so than really needing AROS ( we is largely about getting free from copyright ), much like what DENEB offers. If I have the power / control to pick and choose binaries (boingbags) to execute and boot up, why do I need AROS? it's "AROS" not "AROM". I want to be free of the ROM constraints, not the OS...

Well said man. What does AROS bring to the party that might be attractive to a user of legacy hardware?

How about being "free of the ROM constraints"?

[nicholas]

What does AROS bring to the party that might be attractive to a user of legacy hardware?[/I]"?

EEPROM flashable/Relokick-able custom ROMs for one.

[Iggy]

EEPROM flashable/Relokick-able custom ROMs for one.

Will that give them large ROM capacities?