FPGA Replay Board

[TheGoose]

Unless the '060 is used, you'll pay out the nose.
Natami is aiming for more performance and an '050 on the fpga.  Hence it will *probably* cost less than a Replay with a *new* 060 and daughter card.

The Natami is still a step ahead in performance as an Amiga...and that's not an insult to the Replay.  All you have to look at is the fpga used and the memory used.
However, the Natami will not be user-reprogrammable to run alternate platforms and that's where the Replay comes into its own market.

The Replay is going to be a great alternative to the Frankenstein method of accelerating classic Amigas...and run older alternate platforms.  There is no ill will between the two teams.

FPGA technology is advancing the 68k platform.  Minimig, Replay, Natami offer us NEW hardware at the performance and budget of your liking.  This is a win for Amigans everwhere.

Will be hard to choose. Well, I hope we have a day where we have a hard choice to make; with these options. And lets hope one of these sees the light of day this year...

[Darrin]

Natami is aiming for more performance and an '050 on the fpga.  Hence it will *probably* cost less than a Replay with a *new* 060 and daughter card.

Surely any core the Natami uses in FPGA (and thus performance) could also be used by the bare FPGA Arcade?

Already it has a working 680x0 core in FPGA capable of running WB3.x and running at insane speeds.  As it looks like the 68060 will be running at 100MHz or more, I have to wonder whether the Natami '050 softcore will be able to keep up with a real 68060 at that speed.

It is going to be interesting to compare both machines.

From a pure "Amiga" point of view, I still see the Natami and FPGA Arcade as I used to view the A2000 and the A500 (or A4000 and A1200).  The Natami seems destined for a nice big case, full of expansions and which never has the top fitted because you're always adding to it while the FPGA Arcade is going into a tiny case where you never have to mess with it.  

[psxphill]

Surely any core the Natami uses in FPGA (and thus performance) could also be used by the bare FPGA Arcade?

Depends on the speed and size of the FPGA ( which also affects the cost ). Without the source code it will be tricky to adapt as well.

[Joeled]

@mikej
Any new video on its way? Maybe show some games? :afro:

[Iggy]

Unless the '060 is used, you'll pay out the nose.
Natami is aiming for more performance and an '050 on the fpga.  Hence it will *probably* cost less than a Replay with a *new* 060 and daughter card.

The Natami is still a step ahead in performance as an Amiga...and that's not an insult to the Replay.  All you have to look at is the fpga used and the memory used.
However, the Natami will not be user-reprogrammable to run alternate platforms and that's where the Replay comes into its own market.

The Replay is going to be a great alternative to the Frankenstein method of accelerating classic Amigas...and run older alternate platforms.  There is no ill will between the two teams.

FPGA technology is advancing the 68k platform.  Minimig, Replay, Natami offer us NEW hardware at the performance and budget of your liking.  This is a win for Amigans everwhere.

I can't picture sourcing an '060 any other way than used.
And of course you're right, the Natami is designed as an enhanced Amiga.
Frankly all I'm really interested in under WB3.X is legacy software.
For new software I'll stick with MorphOS.

[Louis Dias]

Surely any core the Natami uses in FPGA (and thus performance) could also be used by the bare FPGA Arcade?

Already it has a working 680x0 core in FPGA capable of running WB3.x and running at insane speeds.  As it looks like the 68060 will be running at 100MHz or more, I have to wonder whether the Natami '050 softcore will be able to keep up with a real 68060 at that speed.

It is going to be interesting to compare both machines.

From a pure "Amiga" point of view, I still see the Natami and FPGA Arcade as I used to view the A2000 and the A500 (or A4000 and A1200).  The Natami seems destined for a nice big case, full of expansions and which never has the top fitted because you're always adding to it while the FPGA Arcade is going into a tiny case where you never have to mess with it.  

NATAMI's fpga is larger and faster than Replay's so unless the team licenses only the SAGA core, that will not be possible.

The target for the '050 is in the 100-150 MHz range and it will have many advances like a larger cache and code-fusing.  Many instuctions will be executed in 1 cycle.

For users, the Natami will not be offered with an '060 card but with a core running the N050.  While the '060 may be considered an upgrade for the Replay, this is not the case with Natami and only serves to get the Natami in developer's hands (expensively) until the cpu core is finalized.

As a CD32+SX1 owner, either board is a serious upgrade in performance for me.

With NEW upgraded affordable hardware in the field, I hope software rises to take advantage of it.

As I understand it, the latest 'core' of Replay is achieving '040-like performance which is great!

[TheGoose]

So should I shop for a full 68060 or the LC low cost models? Does that matter in this application?

[trekiej]

Get the full 68060 if you can afford it.

[espskog]

Got my BBS backup from 1993 waiting here ;-)

I wonder if the replay board will run even for 24/7 without having any issues.

[Darrin]

NATAMI's fpga is larger and faster than Replay's so unless the team licenses only the SAGA core, that will not be possible.

The target for the '050 is in the 100-150 MHz range and it will have many advances like a larger cache and code-fusing.  Many instuctions will be executed in 1 cycle.

For users, the Natami will not be offered with an '060 card but with a core running the N050.  While the '060 may be considered an upgrade for the Replay, this is not the case with Natami and only serves to get the Natami in developer's hands (expensively) until the cpu core is finalized.

As a CD32+SX1 owner, either board is a serious upgrade in performance for me.

With NEW upgraded affordable hardware in the field, I hope software rises to take advantage of it.

As I understand it, the latest 'core' of Replay is achieving '040-like performance which is great!

Ah, cheers for the info.  Is the Natami FPGA vastly more expensive as a result?  I certainly wasn't expecting the Natami to be priced around the EUR250-350 mark.

[Darrin]

I wonder if the replay board will run even for 24/7 without having any issues.

Can't think why not.  I left my Minimig v1.1 running for over 32 days once when I forgot to switch it off before heading to Brazil.

[freqmax]

I wonder if the replay board will run even for 24/7 without having any issues.

That depends on the skills of mikej

In practice if the mechanical stress between the BGA package and the PCB is greater than the solder bonding.. there is trouble. Same if power consumption makes the voltage regulators exceed their power dissipation and thus thermal limit. Dust, moisture or smoke can also mess with the stability. Unusual bit patterns may cause electromagnetic interference within the board, especially if the power capacitors and inductance isn't properly designed. The link between the FPGA and the DRAM may be especially vurnable. Transients or earth loops from external connections is another gotcha.

I hope he does some 24/7 testing to see what fails first.

Some practical things to do:
 * Get a power supply with proper AC-line filters
 * Measure and remove and ground loops between screen, audio amplifier, power supply, etc
 * Fix an enclosure with enough venting holes
 * Use ESD protection at ALL times

[Darrin]

That depends on the skills of mikej

In practice if the mechanical stress between the BGA package and the PCB is greater than the solder bonding.. there is trouble. Same if power consumption makes the voltage regulators exceed their power dissipation and thus thermal limit. Dust, moisture or smoke can also mess with the stability. Unusual bit patterns may cause electromagnetic interference within the board, especially if the power capacitors and inductance isn't properly designed. The link between the FPGA and the DRAM may be especially vurnable. Transients or earth loops from external connections is another gotcha.

I hope he does some 24/7 testing to see what fails first.

Some practical things to do:
 * Get a power supply with proper AC-line filters
 * Measure and remove and ground loops between screen, audio amplifier, power supply, etc
 * Fix an enclosure with enough venting holes
 * Use ESD protection at ALL times

Keeping it submerged in a bucket of icy salt-water will help too.

[Iggy]

Keeping it submerged in a bucket of icy salt-water will help too.

No,no, no. Salt water is what you use on defective nuclear reactors.

[amigadave]

So should I shop for a full 68060 or the LC low cost models? Does that matter in this application?

Depends on what you plan on running on it.  For most Amiga games and other programs, a 680LC60, or 680EC60 will probably be fine.  There are very few Amiga applications that need the MMU and even less that need the FPU.  See Jens explanation for using the 680EC30 on his ACA1230 accelerators.

[Franko]

No,no, no. Salt water is what you use on defective nuclear reactors.

Oh.. Oh... Iggy's going to go off on one his save the world rambles again...