FPGA Replay Board

[Darrin]

@espskog, I think something like 200 EUR were mentioned earlier.

Which is a bargain considering a "new" refurbished A1200 will set you back around 140 EUR while the Minimig has extra RAM, scan doubler, PS2 mouse and keyboard adapters, SD card adapter and faster performance.

On top of that we also have to remember that this board isn't just an Amiga either.  

Edit:  I should also point out that if Yaqube delivers on the RTG front then a real A1200 would need a Mediator and Radion card to catch up.

[Methanoid]

Good news, I am pretty happy with the hardware testing and I've sending the first boards out to the other developers .....
/MikeJ

@MikeJ
 
Is there a (published) list of those who've said they DEFINITELY want a board to buy (at either the first, more expensive batch or the latter cheaper ones)? As it would probably reduce the threat of email overload if there was and people could know they were on it and able to get one. If there isnt a list I strongly suggest there should be.
 
I hope I made it clear I definitely want one. It's my one hardware treat for the year 2011 and funds already set aside!

[mikej]

Hi,
Sorry I realise it is a bit frustrating.

I've been on holiday last week and off to China again tomorrow - I'll pick up some more PCBs and components there as well. I've completed the minor layout updates for mass production. A few of the footprints needed tweaking and I've moved the DVI connector to make more space for the audio jack. I've also fixed the SVHS output resistor wiring.

All RevB boards with SVHS output are modifed, so there are no electrical differences in the boards.

I need to finish testing the first 10, but I don't want to release too many of them until we are happy with the soft core otherwise we will have unhappy people.

I have a list of everybody who has expressed an interest, and if I have spare non-developer boards (I will) I'll mail those who are first on the list. We should have lots and lots of boads soon.

Cheers,
Mike

[freqmax]

Unpopulated boards?

[hceline]

I have a list of everybody who has expressed an interest, and if I have spare non-developer boards (I will) I'll mail those who are first on the list. We should have lots and lots of boads soon.

Not sure if I made that list. Put me on if I did not.

[espskog]

Could you try to explain the main differences between NatAmi which just announced its board on this forum and the Replay board. I am definitely pro-replay but I am still curious about the side-by-side differences and how they operate + their potentials.


-What are the main technical differences ?
-Do they offer the same functionality ?
-Are they meant to cover the same area of use ?
-A big price difference ?
-Production difference ? (Handmade / Machine made)
-What can A do that B does not ?


//Espen

[freqmax]

-What are the main technical differences ?
68030 vs 68060 (no real-life difference)
32 vs 256 MByte memory
True Amiga vs New 3D graphics, audio channels etc.. (but unsupported)
PCI-slots on NatAmi.

-Do they offer the same functionality ?
NatAmi is intended to be a "new Amiga" rather than a compatible one.

-Are they meant to cover the same area of use ?
NatAmi is intended to have new functionality not found in real Amigas.

-A big price difference ?
"The "light" card without SVHS/composite is 200Euro."
No price for NatAmi, but proberbly higher.

-Production difference ? (Handmade / Machine made)
Fpgaarcade has the PCB factory made and the FPGA machine soldered. The rest of the components are hand soldered.

-What can A do that B does not ?
You can't under any circumstance tinker with NatAmi's HDL source code. Should it be released it's still locked to a specific FPGA vendor.
With FPGA Arcade ASFAIK, the HDL sources will be released for tinkering, hacking and feature proofing.

(I can be wromg )

[bloodline]

Big difference for me:

Natami: Closed design
Replay: Open source (with 68k AROS)

Personally the Replay is my preference, if it can replace my A1200 and A500 and support RTG/RTA then I'm happy

[kolla]

Unpopulated boards?

How many times have you asked that now, and how many times have you been told "no"?

[freqmax]

"if I have spare non-developer boards"

Maybe it was spare because it's unpopulated.  Unclear sentence. Anyway why get so excited over it..

[Darrin]

Could you try to explain the main differences between NatAmi which just announced its board on this forum and the Replay board. I am definitely pro-replay but I am still curious about the side-by-side differences and how they operate + their potentials.


-What are the main technical differences ?
-Do they offer the same functionality ?
-Are they meant to cover the same area of use ?
-A big price difference ?
-Production difference ? (Handmade / Machine made)
-What can A do that B does not ?


//Espen

The easiest way I can thing about putting it is A500 v A2000 or A1200 v A4000 where the FPGA Arcade is your cheaper, light-weight "wedge" and the Natami is going to be your "big box" (especially when you start plugging things into those PCI slots).

However, the FPGA Arcade is not just an Amiga.  Look back through these posts and you'll find a list of other cores being worked on.  So, before you switch on your FPGA Aracde, you'll have a choice of different computers or arcade games cabinets.

I intend to buy both, but I expect to be using the FPGA Aracde more because it will be my "fun" machine geared towards gaming and put into a small portable case (probably a keyboard like my Minimig) while the Natami will replace my A4000 tower and be aimed more towards word processing, graphics and internet.

I also expect to see a large price difference between the boards.

[billt]

You can't under any circumstance tinker with NatAmi's HDL source code. Should it be released it's still locked to a specific FPGA vendor.
With FPGA Arcade ASFAIK, the HDL sources will be released for tinkering, hacking and feature proofing.

HDL isn't so particular to a particular FPGA vendor. There's not different versions of Verilog language from one company to another, nor different VHDL language from one vendor to another.

Depending on if they make heavy use of a particular FPGA feature, you may have to port to equivalent feature in another chip, such as if using internal memories for buffers or FIFOs or something, or some hard-coded maths circuit. Not really the end of the world there though.

Minimig's HDL is already on multiple FPGAs from multiple vendors - Xilinx and Altera, no?

Natami: Closed design
Replay: Open source (with 68k AROS)

Replay the board is open-source, such as schematics and layout files? Or do you refer to Minimig port to this board being open-source, not the board itself? (Minimig is GPL, I hadn't heard Mike planning to give away his board design)


On a slightly different note, the other day I stumbled across another open-source Amiga,
aoOCS   http://opencores.org/project,aoocs  which uses Wishbone bus and thus can connect to a lot of OpenCores thingamies. Neat!

[Fats]

-Do they offer the same functionality ?
NatAmi is intended to be a "new Amiga" rather than a compatible one.

I don't think this is correct. NatAmi should be fully compatible with OS3.x but because of the more expensive parts used there should be much more room for more advanced extensions than Replay.

greets,
Staf.

[freqmax]

HDL isn't so particular to a particular FPGA vendor. There's not different versions of Verilog language from one company to another, nor different VHDL language from one vendor to another.

True, but they use AHDL which is vendor specific. It's way more work than just porting it. Should it ever be released.
And if the developers and board leaves the final smoke, takes a bad direction etc.. Then only Minimig/Fpgaarcade users can design a new board and just move on.

One should however note that the sources for FpgaArcade are still closed, asfaik.

[billt]

True, but they use AHDL which is vendor specific. It's way more work than just porting it. Should it ever be released.

One should however note that the sources for FpgaArcade are still closed, asfaik.

I wasn't aware of AHDL. At work we use Verilog, and some customers bring in VHDL. But we're an ASIC company converting to a microcontroller company, we got out of FPGAs years ago and never had our own company language for those. Interesting they chose this, but it's their choice to make. I'd be curious to know why if they're ever for talking about such things, but obviously I haven't kept up on Natami forums to know about the AHDL thing. I wouldn't have chosen a lock-in language, as I'd want as much flexibility as I can get in case the future provides some opportunity to change FPGAs or go ASIC.

This does make any potential future port more work, yes. Perhaps like porting a program from C++ to Java.

Minimig for FPGAArcade board doesn't need to release sources until binaries are published. I wouldn't expect those to come out until they're satisfied it's working reliably.

[espskog]

@ALL: Thanks for all the discussions on the topics i raised. Nice to see so many others are eager to see the Replay board "on the shelves" sometime very soon

Personally, I will go for the Replay board as I believe it is the coolest of them all. I will of course add the daughterboard and I do hope thet  RTG will be supported in the future so I can use the Replay board also as my "dekstop amiga" :-)

Thumbs up for MikeJ and Yaqube and also to the original minimig-author who started this whole crazyness