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Author Topic: PS3 security is "epic fail"  (Read 54558 times)

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Offline Franko

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Re: PS3 security is "epic fail"
« Reply #104 on: January 01, 2011, 09:14:11 PM »
!
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 02:20:16 AM by Franko »
 

Offline gazgod

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Re: PS3 security is "epic fail"
« Reply #105 on: January 01, 2011, 09:51:13 PM »
Quote from: runequester;603263

Stop buying shitty music
Stop using windows.
 
Huzzah!
 
Corporations screwing with peoples computers will hopefully help people make better choices, or put the corporation out of business. Either way, we are one step ahead.


As a music collector I continue to buy cd's but I refuse to buy any that have any type of anti-piracy measures on them, as most of my music comes from independent lables its not much of an issue. I remember taking a CD back to the shop because its anti piracy wouldn't let it play in my car stereo.

Unfortunatly a lot of the world listens to "shitty" music and uses windows, my point is still valid.

Offline ElPolloDiabl

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Re: PS3 security is "epic fail"
« Reply #106 on: January 01, 2011, 10:08:01 PM »
If you took away peoples rights in one go they would notice. But when they get whittled away slowly people just accept it. Without Godwin ing myself... Newer generations care less and less about hard won freedoms, anything not in their small hamster cage just takes away from their entertainment time.

In the old days a system would have been left open as a selling point to enthusiasts. Now people want everything quick and simple. Enthusiasts get shafted pretty much.

Everything is about money. No one (over generalization) does anything to contribute something useful, except maybe in boom times when they will try anything that might make a buck.
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Offline AmigaNG

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Re: PS3 security is "epic fail"
« Reply #107 on: January 01, 2011, 10:53:58 PM »
Quote
So you are suggesting that people should stop tinkering with devices if the manufactorer disapproves. Right?
No. did you finish reading my sentences? Microsoft  is hardly overjoyed that people are hacking its Kinect device to do weird effects with, I think thats ok, hell I have a driver on my pc that lets me use my ps3 web cam and joypad if i like. Hacking these kind of device to be used on other machine I dont really have a problem with. The problem I have with this is it clearly going to used by the majority of people to get free games.
 
 
Quote
The opening of the PS3 hardware might have many consequences that collides with Sony's business idea for the PS3. Such as third party operating systems, improved media center functionality (at last), games being developed outside Sony's ecosphere etc. just like we've seen on the other consoles that have been opened.
You got to admit though that piracy is the big one.  Plus I will say it again if you not happy by what is offered by Sony, buy an alternative product. Hell at the moment I use my ps3 as my media hub, but it just doesn't support all the media files I want it to and it web browser is pretty poor (still glad it has one) this is why I decided to build my own media center pc this year so I wont have any of these problems.
 
 
Quote
A totally irrelevant comment, noone is forcing anything and the "closed" IP system only appeared to be closed. On closer inspection it was not closed at all, perhaps it was intended to be closed, but in the end it was wide open.
Highlighted the problem for you, it was intended to be closed weather it was or not is irrelevant, sony didn't intend to let this happen. Plus still to run unapproved software you are going to have to copy Sonys key, weather you like it or not, that key is a Sony code so by copying or misusing it your are breaking the law.  
 
 
Quote
Why not? That's what one pay for, right? Now you can decide for yourself what needs you have and run whatever firmware you like, it is how it should have been from the start from a customers POV.
Well technically you get what you pay for is right, meaning if Sony sold you a fat PS3 with firmware v1 that is all your technically entitled to, Sony doesn't have to provide updates to any user who doesn't agree with any new end user agreement they make. Plus if your happy with what you paid for why do you feel the need to hack it and allow it to do more that what it said it could do, why not just buy a machine that lets you do what you want it to do. after all the "limited" features of the ps3 is all you paid for, right? why do you think you should be entitled to more than what you paid for, the main reason PS3 is cheaper than what it should be is due to the fact Sony get a nice % on anything you buy for it.If you dont agree with that system then your should be buying a computer.
 
 
Quote
I really don't understand your agenda in this discussion
Well I'm going to call it a day in this discussion because i dont want to be seen as a fan boy, or a troll or a supporter of DRM and copyright crap, I'm not at all.  
 
The main reason I posted was because I didn't like the general attitude of some people saying that:
 
Sony 100% deserves this, (they where the only game console that did allow and supported linux on it to begin with, so they dont, but thats just my view.)

That its was only done to get Linux back on it (again no one forced you to upgrade firmware, and linux if far better on other devices...like a computer would you believe! Again just my point of view)

and that it ok to pirate the games and get them for free (ok no one said that last one, but I'm pretty sure thats what a lot of people are thinking.)
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 11:15:47 PM by AmigaNG »
 

Offline A1260

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Re: PS3 security is "epic fail"
« Reply #108 on: January 01, 2011, 11:29:42 PM »
Quote from: AmigaNG;603294
at the moment I use my ps3 as my media hub, but it just doesn't support all the media files I want it to.


what media files of yours do the ps3 not support?
 

Offline Tension

Re: PS3 security is "epic fail"
« Reply #109 on: January 01, 2011, 11:31:44 PM »
@ AmigaNG

use TVersity.  It transcodes nearly all formats (apart from ISOs, annoyingly!!) to the PS3.

Excellent software.

Offline dentunes

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Re: PS3 security is "epic fail"
« Reply #110 on: January 01, 2011, 11:51:58 PM »
Well, let's see. Jailbreaking an iPhone is now considered legal in the US. Apple didn't want anyone to jailbreak it, people have and it is legal. This is no different. People DO pirate stuff on the iPhone once it is jailbroken, though for a lot of people that is not why. I personally jailbreak my iPhone so that I can tether my iPad to it. This was a function that was not allowed by Apple. Others do it so that they can use the phone on another network and so on.

Piracy is against the law and I am all for that. I know how I felt when they took the Other OS feature away. That was wrong. I don't care what excuse they used. It was wrong. For me it was the principal of paying for something that was advertised as a feature and then it being taken away after you purchased it. There were MANY other ways they could protect themselves from that hack - like Microsoft do with banning from xBox live.  Stealing what you rightly paid for was not right.
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Offline nicholasTopic starter

Re: PS3 security is "epic fail"
« Reply #111 on: January 01, 2011, 11:56:24 PM »
Quote from: A1260;603279
the makers of Ico and Shadow of the Colossus come with a new game called The Last Guardian....
http://ps3.ign.com/objects/142/14230646.html

video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPpCKjFrXzE

Ico
http://ps2.ign.com/objects/014/014833.html

Shadow of the Colossus
http://ps2.ign.com/objects/490/490849.html



other great games..

heavy rain..
http://ps3.ign.com/objects/811/811232.html

the uncharted drake series...
http://ps3.ign.com/objects/812/812550.html
http://ps3.ign.com/objects/142/14225971.html
http://ps3.ign.com/objects/094/094314.html

red dead redemtion
http://ps3.ign.com/objects/748/748481.html
http://ps3.ign.com/objects/080/080424.html

gt5
http://ps3.ign.com/objects/857/857126.html

gods of war 3
http://ps3.ign.com/objects/886/886158.html

these are just a few games that you will buy or pirate, thats for sure..


Don't judge me by your own standards. I don't steal so I won't pirate any games, I don't play games either so I won't buy any either.
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Offline stefcep2

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Re: PS3 security is "epic fail"
« Reply #112 on: January 02, 2011, 12:10:54 AM »
Quote from: kolla;603254

 Why not? That's what one pay for, right? Now you can decide for yourself what needs you have and run whatever firmware you like, it is how it should have been from the start from a customers POV.


From a customers POV?  There are two sides to any sale: the seller's and the  buyer's.  If the two agree on the price and other terms, the sale proceeds.  If not, both parties can go their seperate ways.  

About the only people that might feel aggrieved is those that purchased the first version PS3's to run Linux, and their compensation would be to get a refund when they return the hardware.

What is happening here is the buyer is altering the item in a way that will cause financial harm to the seller-not might, but WILL cause financial harm to the seller.  i don't see how you can justify this, really.

And for those who think Sony "deserve this" eg for removing OtherOS and the Audio Cd rootkit fiasco, you've just admitted that this will be used for none other than piracy, because running OtherOS won't harm them, so what else will if not piracy.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 12:13:29 AM by stefcep2 »
 

Offline Matt_H

Re: PS3 security is "epic fail"
« Reply #113 on: January 02, 2011, 01:42:36 AM »
Quote from: stefcep2;603303
What is happening here is the buyer is altering the item in a way that will cause financial harm to the seller-not might, but WILL cause financial harm to the seller.  i don't see how you can justify this, really.

And why does this cause harm to the seller? Because, as I argued in an earlier post, Sony's business model is flawed. They're subsidizing the cost of their hardware with software. That was their decision, and the market is proving it to be a bad one. Technically, if I bought a PS3 and dumped it straight in the trash I'd be causing them the same financial harm, but no one would give me flak for that.

Once a product is out on the market, people will use it how they wish, EULAs be damned. It's where innovation comes from - repurposing and improving existing ideas. Look at this camera stabilizer made from pipes. That's not how the pipe manufacturer intended their pipes to be used, but do you think they're furious about it? No, they'd probably be delighted because it means more sales to consumers who might not ordinarily buy pipes - a new market segment. And it's instant profit, because their overhead costs are built into the price of their pipes.

In fact, take a look at just about anything at http://makezine.com. Or, closer to home, look at the Natami, which was derrived from a C-One board. These are all hacked and modified devices that most likely brought a little extra cash to the parts suppliers that might otherwise not have made those sales.

So if Sony is locking themselves out of this market - the market for hardware hackers, open-source enthusiasts, university researchers, cluster computing datacenters, governments - by failing to cost-reduce their hardware or to subsidize it from a less volatile corporate division, then it's their own damn fault for reaping the financial consequences when the market self-corrects to compensate for their shortsightedness.

And the piracy angle? Yeah, this might result in a bunch of 14-year-olds getting free games, but Sony really should have seen it coming; it's a fact of life. Pretty much every copy protection scheme ever designed has been cracked, so they need to be approaching anti-piracy the same way they'd approach poor sales - better marketing, lower software prices, better supply chain and stock management, promotions, and, dare I say it, better software products that people want to buy.

Do they "deserve" it? No, but they made a business decision and now they have to live with the consequences.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 06:19:29 AM by Matt_H »
 

Offline Terminills

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Re: PS3 security is "epic fail"
« Reply #114 on: January 02, 2011, 02:21:54 AM »
Quote from: stefcep2;603303
From a customers POV?  There are two sides to any sale: the seller's and the  buyer's.  If the two agree on the price and other terms, the sale proceeds.  If not, both parties can go their seperate ways.  

About the only people that might feel aggrieved is those that purchased the first version PS3's to run Linux, and their compensation would be to get a refund when they return the hardware.

What is happening here is the buyer is altering the item in a way that will cause financial harm to the seller-not might, but WILL cause financial harm to the seller.  i don't see how you can justify this, really.

And for those who think Sony "deserve this" eg for removing OtherOS and the Audio Cd rootkit fiasco, you've just admitted that this will be used for none other than piracy, because running OtherOS won't harm them, so what else will if not piracy.



I already intentionally harm Sony... I only buy used games for my ps3 ever since they took away my otheros option.  

http://www.omgn.com/feature/2010/12/08/used-video-games
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

edited by mod: this has been addressed
 

Offline billt

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Re: PS3 security is "epic fail"
« Reply #115 on: January 02, 2011, 03:51:11 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;603219
but it really unlikely AOS4 or MorphOS would be ported to this platform without the direct approval of Spny (whether the hack exists or not) as  this would open up Hyperion or the MorphOS development team to legal actions.


That's why I said AROS in my == piracy? list instead of OS4/MOS.
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Offline billt

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Re: PS3 security is "epic fail"
« Reply #116 on: January 02, 2011, 03:55:21 AM »
Quote from: runequester;603243
In the US at least, under the DMCA it most likely is.

If it's legal to jailbreak an iphone, why not legal to also jailbreak a PS3?

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/

Quote
Every three years, the Librarian of Congress and the Copyright Office entertain proposed exemptions to the DMCA, passed in 1998. The act forbids circumventing encryption technology to copy or modify copyrighted works. In this instance, Apple claimed the DMCA protects the copyrighted  encryption built into the bootloader that starts up the iPhone OS operating system.

But the Copyright Office concluded that, “while a copyright owner might try to restrict the programs that can be run on a particular operating system, copyright law is not the vehicle for imposition of such restrictions.”

A federal appeals court came to the same conclusion last week in an unrelated dispute about “dongles,” or keys that grant access to software. “The owner’s technological measure must protect the copyrighted material against an infringement of a right that the Copyright Act protects, not from mere use or viewing,” (.pdf) the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in a case concerning a software licensing flap between MGE UPS Systems and GE Consumer and Industrial.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 03:57:44 AM by billt »
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Offline mpiva

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Re: PS3 security is "epic fail"
« Reply #117 on: January 02, 2011, 07:27:08 AM »
Quote from: Tension;603299
@ AmigaNG

use TVersity.  It transcodes nearly all formats (apart from ISOs, annoyingly!!) to the PS3.

Excellent software.

  Personally, I prefer "PS3 Media Server".  It transcodes all formats, including ISOs, allows you to switch transcoding engines on the fly, turn on/off subtitles from the PS3, and I generally find it streams faster than TVersity (less stuttering and better fastfoward/rewind). Also, PS3 Media Server doesn't require you to update your media database when files are added and internet streams are piped through on demand instead of requiring to be pre-downloaded.

  But back on topic... I'm really pleased to see this "hack" or "exploit" or whatever you want to call it.  I'm also one of those who bought it as a media player.  I only own 4 games for the PS3 and 3 of those are for my kids. Pirated games don't really interest me but the potential homebrew has me excited.  If an internet radio app and better browser is made for the PS3 I'll be in heaven! I have to say, the PS3 browser has been my biggest disappointment about the machine. The fact that it had a browser was why I bought it over an XBox360 but over the years the browser's become more and more useless.

I used to have a nice collection of video sites that worked well with the PS3 but it seems every day fewer of them work.  Even Youtube can kill the PS3 sometimes. I used to love loading up Grooveshark to stream music to the PS3 but now that's stopped working too (Grooveshark's using HTML5 now).  Heck, even Google doesn't display properly on the PS3 browser. If Sony had bothered to keep their browser up-to-date it would be a much more useful machine. If the only way I'm going to get Internet Radio, Web Video, Facebook, Twitter, etc on my PS3 is by hacking it and installing homebrew, I'll do it.  If Sony would ever update their browser so I could do all that from there, I probably wouldn't bother with homebrew and Sony would have at least one less hacked console.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 07:29:15 AM by mpiva »
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Offline ciento

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Re: PS3 security is "epic fail"
« Reply #118 on: January 02, 2011, 08:20:22 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;603219
It simple, distributing the software key is an unauthorized use of Sony IP.
You may see an open/freely disbuted OS like Linux us this hack, but it really unlikely AOS4 or MorphOS would be ported to this platform without the direct approval of Spny (whether the hack exists or not) as  this would open up Hyperion or the MorphOS development team to legal actions.
Allowing Morphos and OS4 ports would generate a few thousand PS3 sales, while
dissallowing them earns them nothing. Either they are morons, or elitists too rich to care.
 

Offline ciento

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Re: PS3 security is "epic fail"
« Reply #119 from previous page: January 02, 2011, 08:44:59 AM »
Quote from: gertsy;603206
Yes, so by law in Aus everyone could return their PS3 and get their money back 'cos they can't run Linux.  

Stand clear for the stampede...........Naught but the sound of crickets chirping....

I don't understand the big deal in running Linux on a games machine..?
Sorry to tell the Linux fan boys but if Linux was freely available on the PS3 nothing would change.  Being able to run Linux on a PS3 won't make Linux miraculously popular.
Nor would it unleash a tide of spectacular software to the PS3 scene.

Let it play games.  There's nothing wrong with playing games.
It is a computer sold as a games machine to avoid taxes and regulations.  I would like to see sony release a computer PSx, so what if the price  is a bit higher to pay the federales?

If there was nothing to fear from linux using otheros, why did sony
choose to discontinue a (small) feature? A company
that locks horns with linux teams, had better have $$$ and battle plans,
and the superior coding army. I'm all for corporate profits, as long as
nobody breaks their deals, written or otherwise (no pun intended) :)
I'm not for piracy, and I'm confident the beancounters from Sony pad the prices so customers subsidize the criminals, instead of shareholders doing it.
Not so easy for the smaller devs, who can't spread the losses on such a large field. The world is changing. Cheers
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 09:07:34 AM by ciento »