PS3 security is "epic fail"

[AmigaNG]

Well few points, firstly comparing a amiga to ps3 hacking is a little bit of a stretch, ones a computer and so is largely regarded that you should be allowed to run any software you like and ones a game console, where its largely regarded that the manufacture can dictate what is and isnt allowed on    the console.
 
Another point is on every amiga sold there should be a sticker that reads something like if broken voids the warranty, and when commodore-amiga where active they did try and prevent hacks, I believe I remember reading that they worked with Ocean to develop something you plug into your joystick port (might of been for Robocop3) that would scramble the controls if the game was a copy, but within like a week it was hacked.  
 
Plus some of the big hacks and work arounds only came about after commodore demised and it looked like companies like gateway was'nt that bothered what happened to Amiga so where necessary. Plus again this is a computer not a games console.
 
Look at the end of the day the biggest problem I have with this story is the way they are trying to spin it that they only hacked it for linux and for homebrew gaming, I'm sorry but for £300 you paid for you ps3 you could of got a bare basic pc and have a much better linux experiences, all the home-brew you want with out the risk of braking the law, braking the hardware or having to jump around hoops to get the stuff working.

All I'm trying to say is why are these people trying to write programs for the ps3 when if they came to our community they be more than welcome to do what they liked, in fact I love these coders to come on board and show us what a xmos chip on the x1000 could do,  I'm sure aeon would welcome them etc, a load of other companies would also welcome them to do what they like with thire device but no instead they go where there not welcome.

[guest7146]

Yes, but people don't.  They hack the machine, use it to deprive Sony and its deveopers a legitimate income, and then pull out this "denial of freedom" BS argument to justify what they are doing.

In Aus BTW, you have no consumer right for the product to do whatecer you want, only that the manufacturer has a duty to make the product do what its supposed to.

I agree that piracy is unfair.  I also conceed that piracy will now be a possibility due to the hacking work that has been done.

However, I will argue that the only reason the hacking work was done was because Sony took away a previously advertised feature that allowed users to run Linux on the system.  The hackers don't want piracy, all they want is to be able to run their Linux OS on it.

Mind you, one thing I've learned about forum debates is that they are always pointless, no matter what the topic or who is right or wrong.  The thing is, nobody will ever allow themselves to read someone else's point of view and be convinced otherwise.
I'm not suggesting it should be you being convinced otherwise here, rather than me, but in forum debates nobody ever considers someone else's point of view.  We all just defend our own points of view repeatedly.

So that's why I tend to stay away from forum debates.  But this one sucked me in!



AH.

[ChaosLord]

In Aus BTW, you have no consumer right for the product to do whatecer you want, only that the manufacturer has a duty to make the product do what its supposed to.

 The product is supposed to run Linux.

[ciento]

The product is supposed to run Linux.

If I was Mr. Sony, I'd cut a deal to reinstate otheros permanently, and fund
'many' summer-of-code projects, in return for not releasing the goods into the wild.
Maybe need to sweeten the pot with  hypervisor access too, since PS4 is X years away still, and full 3D access on PS3 would take a while to code, so it might not
hamper new sales in the interim.

But maybe it's too late.

[A1260]

If I was Mr. Sony, I'd cut a deal to reinstate otheros permanently, and fund
'many' summer-of-code projects, in return for not releasing the goods into the wild.
Maybe need to sweeten the pot with  hypervisor access too, since PS4 is X years away still, and full 3D access on PS3 would take a while to code, so it might not
hamper new sales in the interim.

But maybe it's too late.

its to late for the ps3 now, its hacked. my guess there will be no otheros and more tighten security for the ps4. sony said that the ps3 will have a 10 years life spam commercially before a new ps. so its now 5 years left...

[stefcep2]

I agree that piracy is unfair.  I also conceed that piracy will now be a possibility due to the hacking work that has been done.

However, I will argue that the only reason the hacking work was done was because Sony took away a previously advertised feature that allowed users to run Linux on the system.  The hackers don't want piracy, all they want is to be able to run their Linux OS on it.

What concerns me is that the PS still does run Linux, but not if you update to the latest firmware, and they no longer get access to the FREE Sony network.  So IF their motivation is to run Linux then they still can.  

IMO its just a smokescreen to hide that the real motivation is to run pirated software.  As has been said already if you REALLY wanted to run Linux, then there are cheaper, simpler and better ways to do it than a PS3.

I don't believe for one moment that the hackers did it get back at Sony for removing OtherOS: they were going to do it anyway.

[stefcep2]

The product is supposed to run Linux.

i don't know what the original terms of this were in terms of for how long or the support offered by Sony for OtherOS was, but the PS3 is primarily a games console and this is why the vast majority of people buy it.

Those people who did buy it to specifically run OtherOS would probably have a case in that the PS3 doesn't do what its supposed to, but warranties/damages would be likely be limited to a refund on the purchase price, and those buyers would have that option to return their PS3's and get their money back.  BUT I BET THEY WON'T.

Just like the iPhone reception issues:  In Aus, Apple said if you're not happy with it, we'll give you a refund http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/iphone/apple-offers-free-cases-refunds-to-iphone-4-owners-20100717-10ell.html.  But most people didn't, because the thing is so damned good, Apple basically called the bluff of everyone who wanted "compensation"..I bet this is what would happen with those who want the PS3 to run OtherOS.  And Sony know this too.

[A1260]

i don't know what the original terms of this were in terms of for how long or the support offered by Sony for OtherOS was, but the PS3 is primarily a games console and this is why the vast majority of people buy it.

Those people who did buy it to specifically run OtherOS would probably have a case in that the PS3 doesn't do what its supposed to, but warranties/damages would be likely be limited to a refund on the purchase price, and those buyers would have that option to return their PS3's and get their money back.  BUT I BET THEY WON'T.

Just like the iPhone reception issues:  In Aus, Apple said if you're not happy with it, we'll give you a refund http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/iphone/apple-offers-free-cases-refunds-to-iphone-4-owners-20100717-10ell.html.  But most people didn't, because the thing is so damned good, Apple basically called the bluff of everyone who wanted "compensation"..I bet this is what would happen with those who want the PS3 to run OtherOS.  And Sony know this too.

sony have earned their money in a 5 year none piracy periode. with games like call of duty-black ops that earned over $1 billion in less than a month when its first was released. piracy isnt a concern anymore. even when ps3 are hacked sony and game companies will sell games but maybe not earn that much anymore... i guess everything  is a loss if you cant top the earnings you have had before... its called greed i say, so i welcome piracy at this stage of ps3.

[Digiman]

i don't know what the original terms of this were in terms of for how long or the support offered by Sony for OtherOS was, but the PS3 is primarily a games console and this is why the vast majority of people buy it.

Those people who did buy it to specifically run OtherOS would probably have a case in that the PS3 doesn't do what its supposed to, but warranties/damages would be likely be limited to a refund on the purchase price, and those buyers would have that option to return their PS3's and get their money back.  BUT I BET THEY WON'T.

Just like the iPhone reception issues:  In Aus, Apple said if you're not happy with it, we'll give you a refund http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/iphone/apple-offers-free-cases-refunds-to-iphone-4-owners-20100717-10ell.html.  But most people didn't, because the thing is so damned good, Apple basically called the bluff of everyone who wanted "compensation"..I bet this is what would happen with those who want the PS3 to run OtherOS.  And Sony know this too.

I think the issue is they removed a feature available at the time of sale. For PS3 Slim owners they have no such obligation because it was never sold with it.

All this hack does is give you pirating abilities though. At best only PS3 Fat users can get a refund.

And to be honest they did it because unlike Microsoft and Nintendo who weren't bleeding money with every console sale (due to either low build quality or low tech anyway respectively) they needed people to be buying it to fund profits from game sales. Plenty of scientific institutes bought PS3 and used Linux on it for massively parallel applications (like folding at home on steroids).

As others have said, it's a piracy issue (games and blu-ray) and well it's not really a great Linux box...and until someone writes drivers for all aspects of PS3 hardware properly for a Linux distro it's not that interesting to me.

I'd rather not damage my ability to woop people on WRC or F1 2010 online to run some crap version of an OS on a games console

[gertsy]

The product is supposed to run Linux.

Yes, so by law in Aus everyone could return their PS3 and get their money back 'cos they can't run Linux.  

Stand clear for the stampede...........Naught but the sound of crickets chirping....

I don't understand the big deal in running Linux on a games machine..?
Sorry to tell the Linux fan boys but if Linux was freely available on the PS3 nothing would change.  Being able to run Linux on a PS3 won't make Linux miraculously popular.
Nor would it unleash a tide of spectacular software to the PS3 scene.

Let it play games.  There's nothing wrong with playing games.

[kolla]

I really don't grasp the Sony defenders here. The point is that Sony wasted alot of money and effort to secure the PS3, but failed miserably, the security system turns out to be mostly smoke and mirrors, security through obscurity. So who's fault is that? None other than Sony's - THEY fcuked it up.

You cannot prevent people from hacking hardware, that's just nonsense, people will do whatever they like with the hardware out there, and if you as a company cannot cope with that, well boo hoo.

[billt]

All this hack does is give you pirating abilities though.

I disagree.

Did XBMC == piracy for Xbox?

Does Linux == piracy?

Do DIY games == piracy?

Would an AROS port == piracy?

This stuff does make piracy possible, yes, but it's not "All" there is.

[Iggy]

I disagree.

Did XBMC == piracy for Xbox?

Does Linux == piracy?

Do DIY games == piracy?

Would an AROS port == piracy?

This stuff does make piracy possible, yes, but it's not "All" there is.

It simple, distributing the software key is an unauthorized use of Sony IP.
You may see an open/freely disbuted OS like Linux us this hack, but it really unlikely AOS4 or MorphOS would be ported to this platform without the direct approval of Spny (whether the hack exists or not) as  this would open up Hyperion or the MorphOS development team to legal actions.

[A1260]

It simple, distributing the software key is an unauthorized use of Sony IP.
You may see an open/freely disbuted OS like Linux us this hack, but it really unlikely AOS4 or MorphOS would be ported to this platform without the direct approval of Spny (whether the hack exists or not) as  this would open up Hyperion or the MorphOS development team to legal actions.

AOS4 & MorphOS are pretty much out of the picture here thats for sure. but there is maybe a tiny hope for AROS, who knows.....

[kolla]

It simple, distributing the software key is an unauthorized use of Sony IP.

No need to distribute any keys - try again.

[AJCopland]

Gonna chime in on the piracy part. People tend to think that it's a non-issue and that in some cases piracy even "helps" sales. There's _sometimes_ a grain of truth but it's not all of the time or all of the cases.

We've had projects canned and titles cancelled during development for the PC simply because the piracy rate has become so problematic that you might have most people _playing_ your game on the PC, but you've got the most people that have _bought_ your game on the consoles. As a result the publishers simply pull the plug on the PC version entirely.

It doesn't lose the publisher much revenue but for the developer they can have just lost an entire platforms profits and royalties. Of course the PC version can often have a much longer shelf life vs consoles so now you've also got to rely entirely on making your profits and royalties on the launch week of your game... so hopefully there's nothing like Gran Tourismo or something launching at the same time or you'll get literally NOTHING.

So, I think Sony were a bit crap when they removed the OtherOS option, especially as it still listed it on the boxes when the machines were on sale! Removing functionality that people have bought your hardware to use is dishonest I think.

However this does enable piracy, it will mean that it happens more now, and I have been personally affected by piracy in the past. In fact I'm redundant at the moment due to the games industry going through a lot of strife right now so I'm not keen on that side of things.

Dunno where I'm going with all this just bored and hungover on Jan 1st I guess!

Happy New Year everyone!

Andy