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Author Topic: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.  (Read 12829 times)

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Offline IggyTopic starter

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2010, 04:12:42 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;602454
I think AmigaNG nailed it in that it all comes down to the "what makes an Amiga an Amiga" question. Personally, I fall closer to the opposite end of the spectrum: to me, the Amiga is about an elegant hardware architecture that was designed alongside and tightly integrated with an elegant system-software architecture, running on a very nice, assembler-friendly CPU. While I don't disagree that AmigaOS is a fine piece of software (though I haven't used 4+ and can't really speak for that,) it's just one of the components - removing any of them significantly diminishes the appeal for me. That's why Linux/Amix on the Amiga is more of a "oh, look at that" novelty, PPC accelerators hold no interest for me, and stuff like AROS on a PC is kind of boring.

That's not to say that I begrudge devotees of any of the above their own little triumphs, but it does make me wonder, if the software is so plainly what matters, why bother retaining any hardware compatibility, especially going to all the bother of designing a new system around an old processor?


And this is what I really don't understand. If you feel like this about legacy hardware, why are you essentially proposing to build what amounts to a different kind of legacy hardware? The oldschool 68k processors are out of production, stop at 32-bit data bus width, and don't go above 100MHz. If your attitude towards legacy hardware is "get over it and move on," why go to all this trouble? Why not just go with an existing board for a modern architecture and save yourself time, money, and trouble?

(And no, I won't "get with the program," thanks. Some of us value the full Amiga architecture more than being "truly competitive.")

I agree with you on all points and have no intention of giving up my PPC hardware (even though X86 is tempting and the future might be in ARM).

And I don't begrudge the diehard Amiga loyalists their attachment to their legacy hardware. The fact that it can still be used productively is a testament to the integrity of the original concept.
Lord knows I would NOT want to have to suffer with an old PC, but an Amiga would still retain its appeal.

I do get frustrated at times with the negative take so many of you have on NG systems. Not your cup of tea? Hey, that's cool, but it is mine. I've the fact that I've got a fair level of legacy compatibility (which is constantly increasing) and I can play games like QuakeIII.

Doom on an Amiga was cool for its time, but fragging someone online with more mordern graphics just makes me smile.

And I appologize for posting the Ambient screen shot on Franko's thread. Its not fair to compare hardware that is seperated by that many years of development. I mean, yeah, it looks cools, but when I look at the workbench screens you guys are posting all I can think is "Windows didn't look this good for several generation and Mac was Black & White - Damn that still looks modern".
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline IggyTopic starter

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #45 on: December 28, 2010, 04:16:53 PM »
Quote from: Fats;602448
But if I make an Altera Hardcopy version of the design it magically tranform into  'real' hardware just because it does not need a Flash to get started ? And the same if I would use some of the Flash based FPGAs or a one time programmable FPGA ?

greets,
Staf.


OK Staf, its hardware, especially if its a permant flash. But its still not as fast as silicon designed the painful way.

FPGAs and other programmable logic are great tools and they serve great as glue logic. I'm just not impressed with the idea of emulating processors with them.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Franko

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #46 on: December 28, 2010, 04:18:21 PM »
@ Iggy

I should have guessed you were Irish with ideas like that... :lol:

We Scots only eat haggis before going into battle against the sassenachs, it give you the runs so when we bend over and raise out kilts in battle we can fire a nice juicy, lumpy brown sticky keech at them, that sends them back over the border... ;)

(stinks like hell and is a bugger to wash off... :))

Cheers :drink:

@ Hattig

I'm just gonna wait and see when and if the Natami appears just what it can do, still seems to me like one of the better things around at the moment, only time will tell... :)
 

Offline IggyTopic starter

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2010, 05:33:30 PM »
Quote from: Franko;602472
@ Iggy

I should have guessed you were Irish with ideas like that... :lol:

We Scots only eat haggis before going into battle against the sassenachs, it give you the runs so when we bend over and raise out kilts in battle we can fire a nice juicy, lumpy brown sticky keech at them, that sends them back over the border... ;)

(stinks like hell and is a bugger to wash off... :))

Cheers :drink:

@ Hattig

I'm just gonna wait and see when and if the Natami appears just what it can do, still seems to me like one of the better things around at the moment, only time will tell... :)


Yes, if they can pull it off it will be an impressive system.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline motorollin

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2010, 06:22:52 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;602465
...I ain't eating the hagis - what the heck were you Scots thinking - ugh!)


It's really no different to a sausage if you think about it ;)
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

Offline tone007

ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2010, 06:25:10 PM »
Haggis is great.

...though I've only had the vegetarian version.
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Offline motorollin

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2010, 06:27:53 PM »
Quote from: tone007;602492
Haggis is great.

...though I've only had the vegetarian version.


If its's got no guts in it, it ain't a haggis ;)
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

Offline Franko

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2010, 06:38:41 PM »
While the wild Haggi is indeed a vegatarian itself (living mainly off thistles and bumfluff) once you've hunted one down and clubbed it to death with a bug lump of wood and cooked it for yer dinner, it is now a meat product fit for a king... :)

vegetarion Haggis... no such thing tone007, you've been conned, probably some chinese import you were sold made of plastic and old bits of pirated DVDs... :)

I'll get the Scottish Branch of the FDA on to it straight away... :)
 

Offline r06ue1

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2010, 06:55:01 PM »
Quote from: runequester;602298
THe thing the amiga community needs to sort out is:
 
Are we recreating the past?
 
Are we building something for the future?
 
 
Once everybody has settled on that, and settled on being hobby projects rather than some sort of fabled return of the promised land, we can move forward (or backward)

 
I agree with Rune wholeheartedly.  I bought an Amiga to enjoy what I once had but if Amiga is to have a future, it has to be making an OS for the future; not tied to any hardware (a.k.a. MAC OS) and can be installed on many different types of hardware (Linux, AROS, etc...).  The OS needs to be efficient, not bloated like Windoze.
Amiga 1200, 3.1 OS/ROM, 2 MB RAM, 120 GB hard drive, wireless NIC
 

Offline tone007

Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2010, 07:13:18 PM »
Quote from: Franko;602495
vegetarion Haggis... no such thing tone007, you've been conned, probably some chinese import you were sold made of plastic and old bits of pirated DVDs... :)


I realize this.  My wife is a vegetarian and loves to cook, though, and found a recipe for it.

She almost ordered me some real haggis from Scotland, but the shipping cost was ridiculous.
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Offline IggyTopic starter

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2010, 07:37:13 PM »
Just thinking about what goes into haggis is about as unappetizing as seeing the food preperation areas of a Chinese resturant.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 08:17:14 PM by Iggy »
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline tone007

Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2010, 08:08:34 PM »
Properly prepared, I'd eat human.
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Offline IggyTopic starter

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2010, 08:16:45 PM »
Quote from: tone007;602500
Properly prepared, I'd eat human.


Correctly seasoned, it would probably beat haggis.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline IggyTopic starter

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #57 on: December 28, 2010, 08:25:07 PM »
Quote from: r06ue1;602496
I agree with Rune wholeheartedly.  I bought an Amiga to enjoy what I once had but if Amiga is to have a future, it has to be making an OS for the future; not tied to any hardware (a.k.a. MAC OS) and can be installed on many different types of hardware (Linux, AROS, etc...).  The OS needs to be efficient, not bloated like Windoze.



Considering these post, I am quick to admit that my proposal is not a good idea.
I'll leave the legacy users to their dreams of the Natami and wish them well.
For now, I'm sticking with PPCs (and keeping an eye on the X86 and ARM developments).

We all have our preferences, and I got about all I'm likely to get from 68Ks. Why revisit something that could have been that still causes me great anguish? Hey, the platforms were so good that they linger on via the dedicated self abuse of we fanatics.

Take care all.

Jim
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline qwerty40001

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2010, 08:36:19 PM »
Quote from: Fats;602448
But if I make an Altera Hardcopy version of the design it magically tranform into  'real' hardware  


Yes, If You make hardcopy of your FPGA program, then you will get the real thing, not a emulator.

For now, Natami/Minimig are emulators.  

Quote
just because it does not need a Flash to get started ?  And the same if I would use some of the Flash based FPGAs or a one time programmable FPGA ?
What a moron.
 

Offline motorollin

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #59 from previous page: December 28, 2010, 09:05:36 PM »
Quote from: qwerty40001;602504

What a moron.


Was that necessary?
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10