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Author Topic: Am I the only one who doesn't hate AGA?  (Read 22167 times)

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Offline zipper

Re: Am I the only one who doesn't hate AGA?
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2010, 12:23:07 PM »
As I always used this as my backdrop no need to use many colours:
 

Offline TiredOLife

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't hate AGA?
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2010, 12:28:48 PM »
I'm impressed.
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't hate AGA?
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2010, 12:34:33 PM »
@ TiredOLife

If you want them I'll make a link on my CommodoreScotland site so you can download them, only thing is if I recall correctly there OS3.5 glow Icons but I could make the original IFF drawing available as well for you to edit into your own icons... :)
 

Offline Linde

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't hate AGA?
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2010, 12:35:31 PM »
It wasn't as big an upgrade as you could have expected after five years, but it's still an improvement to ECS. No need to complain about it, and "could've"s and "should've"s are just silly this far past it.
 

Offline motorollin

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't hate AGA?
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2010, 01:05:01 PM »
Quote from: Franko;601837
never understood why anyone who went from an A500 to an A1200 wasn't impressed at the time with AGA to me the difference was amazing... :)


ISTR magazines slating a lot of AGA titles because they were little more than the OCS/ECS version with a gaudy background. But that's less a criticism of AGA and more about how it was actually used, IMO. There were a lot of amazing AGA titles which really did a great job of highlighting the benefit of AGA.
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

Offline motorollin

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't hate AGA?
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2010, 01:08:24 PM »
Quote from: Franko;601876
You something I don't like all that eye candy either and now for the life of me I can't think why I run Workbench in 128 colours !!!

There is a reason but I just can't remember right now... this is my typical everyday Workbench... :)



AGA Workbenches are beautiful :)
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

Offline coldfish

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't hate AGA?
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2010, 01:41:52 PM »
Quote from: motorollin;601822
I don't hate it in itself, and I think some AGA games look amazing (Ruff 'n' Tumble springs to mind as an example).

I think what a lot of people resent is that it was too little too late, and that AGA was so quickly overtaken by other platforms' graphics hardware with no hope of an update from Commodore :(


Ruff 'n' Tumble looks like an AGA game but is actually OCS/ECS.  I thought it was AGA too until I tried it on my A500 and it worked!  Hats off to the coders.
 

Offline TiredOLife

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't hate AGA?
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2010, 01:45:34 PM »
@Franko

That would be great, thanks.
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't hate AGA?
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2010, 01:52:14 PM »
Quote from: TiredOLife;601900
@Franko

That would be great, thanks.


Ok... gimme a few minutes and I'll upload them and be back with a link... :)
 

Offline motorollin

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't hate AGA?
« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2010, 01:53:29 PM »
Quote from: coldfish;601898
Ruff 'n' Tumble looks like an AGA game but is actually OCS/ECS.  I thought it was AGA too until I tried it on my A500 and it worked!  Hats off to the coders.


WTF?! Maybe AGA is rubbish after all! :lol:
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

Offline coldfish

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't hate AGA?
« Reply #39 on: December 26, 2010, 02:03:10 PM »
Just goes to show what can be done with crusty old OCS in the hands of talented coders.  Its a shame we didnt see more from those guys.

AGA needed more features like hardware transparency, sprite scaling and rotation...
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 02:05:52 PM by coldfish »
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't hate AGA?
« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2010, 02:12:11 PM »
Quote from: TiredOLife;601900
@Franko

That would be great, thanks.


Here's the link, sorry it took so long but the nets pretty slow just now at my end... :)

Some WB Icons
 

Offline TiredOLife

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't hate AGA?
« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2010, 02:26:12 PM »
@Franco

Cheers mate, much appreciated.
 

Offline KThunder

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't hate AGA?
« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2010, 02:37:41 PM »
I always liked AGA pretty well. One thing that suprised me was that quite a few of my amiga ocs games that for whatever reason wouldn't work on my a3000 worked perfectly on my 1200. After I got the vga adapter and an NEC 3d multisync monitor the image quality was almost as good as the 3000s vga output too.
I think for games and stuff like that ocs/ecs vs aga is a closer race since ocs/ecs were so good and aga wasn't faster enough because of planar graphics. But I have seen some demos and games that are great.
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline Digiman

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't hate AGA?
« Reply #43 on: December 26, 2010, 02:50:28 PM »
Quote from: motorollin;601888
ISTR magazines slating a lot of AGA titles because they were little more than the OCS/ECS version with a gaudy background. But that's less a criticism of AGA and more about how it was actually used, IMO. There were a lot of amazing AGA titles which really did a great job of highlighting the benefit of AGA.


This.

If you look at Super Stardust AGA and then realise you needed a 100mhz 486 to play it on PC it rams home just what was possible with AGA and effectively 7mhz 020 (no Fast ram = approx 50% LESS CPU processing power). 6 channel sound, 256 colour graphics, 50FPS arcade gameplay. WIN. Ditto for Lotus 2 on Amiga vs Lotus 3 on PC. But most of the time Amiga games were limited because they had to do an ST version first (because Commodore never marketed the A1000 properly and wasted 2 years) while Atari slit their throat in sales to home users with the original ST. Games companies are run on profit not tech specs!

Magazines didn't help though, when people went all out to make a game amazing looking/sounding like Sword of Sodan/Battle Squadron they scored it low but gave embarrassingly rubbish conversions like Chase HQ and original games like Xenon II (which only used 16 colours thanks to the crappy ST version coded in tandem) much higher scores.

And then everyone went nuts over 256 colour crap games on PC like Wing Commander (unplayable and looked shit on anything below a 486) and Heart of China/Rise of the Dragon (less enjoyable than Rocket Ranger/Wings/It came from the Desert etc). And then we had Doom. Doom is the only one worth a damn of the four promoted as 'PC gaming superiority' and thanks to AGA and slow crippled 14mhz 020 in A1200 with no Fast ram we couldn't play it. And because the 4000/030 was such an overpriced piece of shit we never would buy it. So again the problem is NOT just 8 bit planar 256 colour mode BUT Commodore needed an A1400 in 1992 with 28mhz 020, 2mb chip 2mb fast. Job done, perfectly possible to do reasonable Doom games with such a machine even with AGA in 128 colours (who'd notice 128 over 256 colours, Amiga artists were awesome when allowed to do graphics for Amiga FIRST and ST second...I should know I was one that worked on a few games!).

I think my only issue is after the 1985 A1000 chipset Commodore sacked the wrong people at Los Gatos (Hi-Toro/Amiga engineers) and replaced them with their own lame dick designers making the A500 (1987...identical A/V) and A2000 (identical A/V AND CPU type/speed) and NOT marketing the A1000 because the A500 and A2000 were supposed to be finished in months NOT YEARS. In 1992, 7 years later, AGA was the bare minimum given pushing 256 colour screens around is slower than 32 colour screens on Amiga 1000s from 1985. Sound was also a big mistake, 4x 8bit channels = not enough.

Remember A1200 was competing for gamer's money with Nintendo/Sega NOT PCs costing £1000. Compare PCs all you want but £100 Sega and Nintendo 16bit consoles is what embarrassed AGA not £1000 VGA Windows machines. Before 3D cards for PCs it wasn't a problem.

Commodore destroyed themselves, they let Needles and Mical walk (who produced Lynx and 3DO chipsets...both amazing for their time) and refused to ever use Ranger chipset finished by Jay in 1987 before he left. The A1200 was a step in the right direction and all they needed to do was make a 28mhz 020 version of the A1200 motherboard and add just 1mb Fast ram to it and sell it 12-18 months later. We got the CD32 instead and they went bust. They did actually come close to the A1400 (020 28mhz, 4mb RAM, A3000 style case) but CD32 took the last of their money and flopped (not surprising when SNES games looked better and a SNES was 75% cheaper AND made by a well known brand like Nintendo).

Or....AGA was OK and better than nothing as in the A600, but could be better. Report card with a grade 'C+' for Amiga 1200 not 'A+' as was the case of A1000 or 'B' for A500.

A1400 and A1400CD machines based on A1200 motherboard and 28mhz 020 and 4mb total ram (+CD for A1400CD and NO CD32 draining money from ailing finances of Commodore in 1993/4).

A4000/030 in the bin, waste of money even marketing that overpriced crap to gamers (majority of Amiga market share in sales).
 

Offline motorollin

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't hate AGA?
« Reply #44 from previous page: December 26, 2010, 02:54:16 PM »
Quote from: coldfish;601908
Just goes to show what can be done with crusty old OCS in the hands of talented coders.  Its a shame we didnt see more from those guys.

Think what they could have done with AGA!
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10