Netsurf 68k

[utri007]

Netsurf for 68k amigas looks promising.

Will there be new versions of it? And will it be amigized? I mean prober amiga gui, mui maybe?

SDL is big problem with our beloved 68k cpu, so ....

RiscOs version runs quite well lowend computers, compared to 030 with 16mb ram, when AmigaOs version requires 060 and 64mb memory to be near usable.

Netsurf is best possibility to get "modern" web browser for 68k amigas. I really wonder why you guys are not more interested about it?

[Cammy]

I don't have a 060 or RTG card, so I just stick with IBrowse for the sites I can use, and OWB on my Aros laptop for the ones I can't. Sure, I'd use Netsurf if it was usable, but I don't have my hopes up that it ever will be because of SDL.

[fishy_fiz]

While 68k Netsurf has improved since the earlier versions it still is really only usable for higher end 68k system ('060 + RTG or emulated), and needs some work even disregarding (lack of) speed. Unfortunately 68k based machines probably feel the burn of a small community more than the "NG" options as recompiles of open source software that requires heavy, forgeign apis/toolkits/etc. are often ok on machines with a little more power than a real 68k cpu can provide, and unfortunately due to the very small number of people with amiga specific coding skills still around optimisations and/or using native apis rarely happens.

It's quite a shame really as while the classic amigas are old, and compared to modern options a little humble, theyre still capable of offering a more modern browsing experince than what is currently available.

[utri007]

You are right.

But apps like netsurf would benefit classic amiga community for long time, if somebody could pay some attention to make optimized port with proper gui.

Netsurf is our only realistic change to get modern web browser. All others would be useless at least with real amigas OWB/Firefox etc.

Allso Netsurf would benefit projects like natami, offering more modern apps to their product

[chris]

But apps like netsurf would benefit classic amiga community for long time, if somebody could pay some attention to make optimized port with proper gui.

Yes, there's no reason why it shouldn't work on lower memory, slower 68k systems.

The OS4 GUI shouldn't be too difficult to backport (to OS3.9BB2 as it is Reaction based).  Some work would need to be done to get the pages displaying properly on 8-bit displays (currently, even on OS4, NetSurf needs a 16-bit or higher screenmode), and the font code is a bit special but I have a ttfengine version floating around somewhere which might be a good starting point although will need to be fixed up.

If somebody #ifdef'd the OS4 frontend with OS3 changes and helped add features (such as 8-bit display support) and fix bugs I would be well happy!

Sadly Bernd and Artur only seem to be interested in hacking the SDL frontend, which wasn't really designed as a full desktop browser.

[mechy]

Sadly ports like this end up being bloated and resource/ram hogs.. its a good effort of course.. Unfortunately its never been stable on my machine.

Long ago i used a old mac browser called Icab that was for 68K macs under fusion. it worked pretty well for the time on my 060 amiga.

Browsers will always be huge resource hogs and expecting them to run on a 030 much less 060 is a miracle. Ibrowse is an amazing example of what native browsers can do on our machines. Its too bad we will not see ibrowse updated.

[whabang]

I wonder if it would be possible to port one of the more recent text-based browsers available, like elinks or w3m. They are fast, and despite their ASCII-ness they are fairly up to date.

[utri007]

Native Netsurf should be fast. RiscOS requirements are 30MHz ARM 6 computer with 16MB of RAM, so I could imagine it would run 030 with 16mb ram.

I belive that itix has made some progres with this? Maybe he could help?

[radzik]

But will be a native version? Maybe we should make a bounty for it?

[Gulliver]

A native version should be a great idea.
Then, how would you define that bounty? Please modify/criticize the following suggested one:

Port NetSurf current version to Amiga 68k, without using SDL as a base, as it is resource hungry for poor old 68k. The idea is to have a 68k version that it is usable for most Classic Amiga users. If it adds more features like RTG, 040 or 060 native support, etc then the better as long as it runs on what the Proof of Bounty requires.

Proof of bounty completed when Netsurf current, runs on an OCS 68030 (with no MMU and FPU) Amiga with no graphics card and less than 32MB of fastmem, with its GUI entirely MUIfied (MUI 3.8 compatible) and displays http://www.yahoo.com web page. A WinUAE/UAE setup that matches those system requirements is of course, also allowed as a testing proof.

Please add your suggestions. Is it feasable after all? What do you think?

[x303]

Please add your suggestions. Is it feasable after all? What do you think?

Well, a version without sdl can be done, if someone ports the mui gui from the morphos package.

[Fab]

You are right.

But apps like netsurf would benefit classic amiga community for long time, if somebody could pay some attention to make optimized port with proper gui.

Netsurf is our only realistic change to get modern web browser. All others would be useless at least with real amigas OWB/Firefox etc.

Allso Netsurf would benefit projects like natami, offering more modern apps to their product

Except OWB can actually be faster than Netsurf, even though it does a lot more. I even wonder how Netsurf (68k) can be so slow... Memory requirements would be another issue, though.

[Gulliver]

@Fab
So, do you think it is actually technically feasable to port OWB current or MOS version to run in an OCS 68030 <32MB Amiga? Would you do it for a nice amount of bounty $$$ ?

[Fab]

@Fab
So, do you think it is actually technically feasable to port OWB current or MOS version to run in an OCS 68030 <32MB Amiga? Would you do it for a nice amount of bounty $$$ ?

Clearly not. OWB requires a gfx card and at least 128MB (or rather 256MB) to be somehow usable.
But my point was rather Netsurf also doesn't qualify for such a requirement, at the moment, since it's even slower.

[Gulliver]

@Fab
In the end, do you think there is no solution for 68k users regarding semi-modern web browsing? I mean no half decent browser port can be made? Or is it that it just requires too much effort from a devs point of view to tweak and modify code to make it usable?