Help! Constant HD read/write errors

[Heiroglyph]

This will be a long one, but I hope it's enough info to get this sorted.

Since I've been back in Amigaland old bad memories are coming back to me such as how often I have had disk read-write errors on Amigas.

Are you guys having this constantly?  The errors are there on one boot, but not the next, usually while copying files around but sometimes while booting up.

Sometimes it happens on the USB thumbdrive, other times on a SCSI drive.

I've tried about 5 different combinations of drives so far, all act the same.  It works for a while, then shows errors that go away again.

The system is an A4000T/060 (Quickpack 060).
I'm using the built in SCSI, but I'd like to get away from old SCSI drives if possible.
I have a 4 IDE adapter from Amikit, but I've had no luck booting from the IDE, even the first port so I mainly use it for CDRom.
I have a Deneb and I can boot from that with USB thumbdrives.

I have many newer drives available to try.  Newer 10K and 15K SCSI (18-36GB), large PATA, SATA, IDE-SATA adapter, USB-SATA adapter, USB thumbdrives, possibly more.

I'm using a Prometheus PCI if that helps.

I'm not opposed to buying new controllers or whatever is needed to make this work reliably with newer storage devices but if it can work with what I have available, that's even better.

I've tried OS3.9 with BB1/2 and I'm now using ClassicWB P96 with 3.1 disks for the copyrighted files but I'm still having problems, especially when I use more than 2GB of the drive, even using an SFS partition.

Many of the drives I have available are so big that HDToolbox wraps around until it thinks it only has a few MB of space, which makes it even harder to deal with.

I'm having these problems even on small 4GB thumbdrives with a <2GB partition as well as large drives, so I don't think it's all due to size.  I've been careful to attempt to take care of the large drive issues, but could have missed something.

I've got GB's of data that I need to move to safety before the ancient SCSI drives die.

Can anyone help me figure out the problem once and for all?

Thanks

[zipper]

No solution; here's what I found about Quikpak with a brief search:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-27416.html
http://www.hd-zone.com/amiga/quickpak.html
OS3.9+BB2 should be the best base for problemless function as it has support for large drives  by default - I use 18 + 36 GB drives with FFS without problems.

[lionstorm]

read/write errors usually mean wrong mask settings (or a dying device).

read SFS amigaguide to find the right settings for your config, it is very nicely documented !

[Heiroglyph]

I bet you are on to something, I thought that only applied to IDE.  Boy was I wrong!

I don't have my Amiga with SFS at work, so I did some searching.

I found this page that seems pretty good:
http://www.amiga-magazin.de/magazin/a09-02/idescsi/index.html#OptimaleWerte

Does anyone have suggested settings for the A4000T SCSI controller?
How about for the Deneb?  I assume now that this is also a concern.

Thanks

[wawrzon]

as you have not mentioned a file system you are using, if you use sfs - back off imediately.
at least try to reformat the drive in question with another filesystem, be it ffs for the time being (ive switched now to psf3). if this gives you no further errors, the problem 'sbeen found. if not, somethin else is the couse. i dunno about prometheus. mediator here. no read/write errors whatsoever, thank god(s).

[Heiroglyph]

I was trying SFS to see if that helped my problem, most of them are FFS International, no DC.

[Heiroglyph]

I got the SFS guide as suggested and I see this:

When a device has been properly written it should be able to cope with
any amount of data being transfered.  These devices can have a
MaxTransfer value of 0x7FFFFFFF.  Only badly written or very old
devices need to set a smaller value in MaxTransfer -- in other words,
the MaxTransfer value is a compatibility kludge to fix broken devices.

In any case, if you have a SCSI drive, then a MaxTransfer value of
0x7FFFFFFF should be just fine.

Is the A4000T onboard SCSI known to have a bad driver?

Similarly:

Devices which can access data located anywhere in memory (a SCSI
controller which is embedded on an accelerator card, or a Zorro-III
IDE or SCSI controller) should have a mask of 0xFFFFFFFF.

Given that the SCSI controller and Deneb are 32bit devices, does this still sound like the problem?

Thanks

[Damion]

Sorry if I missed this, but do the errors still pop up using only the SCSI drives? Meaning No USB drives connected, and the DENEB flashrom disabled (LMB during boot).

My SCSI drives work and are set up just fine, but as soon I attempt to use any kind of flash media with the DENEB (A2000 TekMagic SCSI, or A3000 onboard SCSI) I get random read/write errors on both the USB flash and SCSI drives.

[Thomas]

@Heiroglyph:

Do you run the Deneb with DMA? Not a good idea. Either SCSI or Deneb can use DMA, but not both. SCSI DMA cannot be switched off, so you need to use the PIO driver for the Deneb.

http://www.e3b.de/usb/main_faq_e.html#DMA_BUSTER_9_11

[Heiroglyph]

I do run the Deneb in Z3 DMA.  Man I hate to give that up

I know I've had problems even between two SCSI drives, but the Deneb was always there.

I always have the Deneb running for my mouse and keyboard, but I'll try it without DMA.

Thanks

[wawrzon]

okay, ive overseen it it is an a4kt, and you are using onboard scsi. thomas must be right. the a4kt and deneb dma are supposed to cause conflict. such isnt an issue with cpu acceleratoers equipped with own scsi controllers as these live in different space, but a4kt onboard scsi is a problem here. set deneb to pio mode and test again.

[Heiroglyph]

Even in PIO mode I can't copy large files to the flash drive.

Does anyone know the correct settings for max transfer and mask with a thumbdrive on the Deneb?

There is an auto setting in trident, but it fails because there aren't enough varied files on the drive.  Of course not, they keep failing.

It seems like SCSI to SCSI (different partitions) on the same drive is working but SCSI to USB is failing with write errors on what seem to be larger files.

After it fails I can't copy anything to it without an error and even after reformatting I get the write errors on different block numbers.

[mechy]

Even in PIO mode I can't copy large files to the flash drive.

Does anyone know the correct settings for max transfer and mask with a thumbdrive on the Deneb?

There is an auto setting in trident, but it fails because there aren't enough varied files on the drive.  Of course not, they keep failing.

It seems like SCSI to SCSI (different partitions) on the same drive is working but SCSI to USB is failing with write errors on what seem to be larger files.

After it fails I can't copy anything to it without an error and even after reformatting I get the write errors on different block numbers.

Use the scsi values in the SFS guide. when u enter them in hdtools,be sure you hit return on the mask and max transfer boxes.
also while you are there make sure u have the sfs/00 (0x53465300) identifier set also and that you are using sfs.

mask should be: 0XFFFFFFFF  (8 F's)
Max Transfer   : 0X7FFFFFFF (7 F's here too)
Format the drives with the quick option on workbench( i dont use international or any caches)
Before you try once more, i suggest you test the power supply voltage,if good, pull the ram simms and swap them around(see if your troubles change).Bad ram can cause fits.
have you changed that 15+ year old scsi cable?? bad cables can cause you grief like nothing else. Is termination correct? this can also cause your troubles.Check the dip switches on back the 4000t scsi are set right.Last resort,pull the buster11 chip and reseat it. hopefully you don't have a zorro problem.

If nothing works,give us more info on your setup,scsi chain,accelerators,ram,etc?

Oh,The deneb can't run in DMA mode on the 4000t with buster 11,the rev. 11 chip only allows one bus master and its the onboard 4091.Only exception would be if u have buster 9,which can handle multiple bus masters.i've never had to set any masks and such on the deneb, it just works.make sure fat95 etc is installed.
good luck!

[Heiroglyph]

No dice.  I'm buying a few different USB thumbdrives to test, maybe it's the drives.

I'm formatting my USB drives with FFS, not FAT.

I was hoping for small, cheap, quiet system drives for backup/occasional use but so far it's just not reliable.