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Offline Piru

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Re: Hello my first Thread
« Reply #59 from previous page: December 07, 2010, 06:37:56 AM »
Quote from: Franko;597166
@ Karlos

I know iprefs use the ruddy useless things (datatypes) I was meaning for viewing GFX or playing audio, I prefer to use a dedicated util for such things.

I've never read much of the docs for MorphOS and can't tell you which versions I tried as I deleted them all a long time ago, yep still no RTG board.
PowerUP MorphOS has always required a RTG card. I don't know what you've tried but it doesn't sound you have been running MorphOS.

And after reading the thread a bit, indeed you weren't. Yes, indeed WarpUP sucked.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 06:42:13 AM by Piru »
 

Offline Bamiga2002

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Re: Hello my first Thread
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2010, 07:07:47 AM »
I remember MorphOS 0.4 ran on AGA aswell.
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Offline Franko

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Re: Hello my first Thread
« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2010, 03:20:18 PM »
Quote from: Piru;597520
PowerUP MorphOS has always required a RTG card. I don't know what you've tried but it doesn't sound you have been running MorphOS.

And after reading the thread a bit, indeed you weren't. Yes, indeed WarpUP sucked.


That's something I don't understand why most software for the 68k/PPC side of things on the Amiga was released in the WarpOS versions and not the vanilla PPC versions instead. As when you do any speed comparisons WarpUP versions always run slower... :confused:

Was it easier to program in WarpUP than plain old PPC (PowerUp) , I wouldn't have thought so, anyone who has ever written something in WarpUP able to clarify this... :)
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Hello my first Thread
« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2010, 03:42:07 PM »
Quote from: Franko;597574
That's something I don't understand why most software for the 68k/PPC side of things on the Amiga was released in the WarpOS versions and not the vanilla PPC versions instead. As when you do any speed comparisons WarpUP versions always run slower... :confused:


It depends. Early versions of PowerUp suffered a larger performance hit when switching between 68K <-> PPC.

On my machine, timing a round trip context from PPC to an empty 68K routine and back took around 2ms for PowerUP and 1ms for WarpOS. For context-switch heavy code, that made quite a difference. Later versions of the PowerUP kernel seemed to close that gap.

Quote
Was it easier to program in WarpUP than plain old PPC (PowerUp) , I wouldn't have thought so, anyone who has ever written something in WarpUP able to clarify this... :)


No, the same caveat applied to both: write your code to minimise context switches.

Back in those days, I wrote myself a simple library in vbcc that provided a simple multiple buffered Screen (or window with offscreen BitMap) with input handling, stream handling and other features. The implementation of the display context had a single "refresh" method, that when you invoke it, does a Run68K() call (WarpOS). The 68K code it invoked then does all the screen buffer switching and gathers all the IDCMP messages into a local buffer where keypresses were decoded into their character codes and other such things. On return, the PPC then invoked user-supplied callbacks for the buffered input events before returning completely to the callee.

In this manner, refreshing the display and processing the input events took just 2 context switches - to 68K and back. Hard to optimize it any further than that.

I saw a lot of code written in those days that just treat OS calls normal. This was in part encouraged by compilers like StormC that made it transparent. End result was code that resulted in a context-switch orgy.
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Hello my first Thread
« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2010, 04:11:02 PM »
@Franko

Haven't you actually written any PPC code for your machine? Seems an odd accelerator card to have bought for a guy that seems to hate almost everything about the platform that appeared after OS2.1. You could have gotten a faster clocked 68060 board for less than you probably paid for yours...
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Offline Franko

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Re: Hello my first Thread
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2010, 04:21:05 PM »
@ karlos

I've always fancied having a go at writing some PPC code, all those extra registers to play with and the challenge of mastering a new language. Only trouble is I don't know of any specific assembler package for writing in PPC.

I wouldn't want to write using C as I prefer coding in assembly, you wouldn't happen to know of an assembly compiler for writing in PPC would you... :)

Also have you ever heard of PPC680X0 from Coyote Flux, It was/is a 68K to PPC source-code convertor. I have two demo versions of this that were released in 1999 but I don't think a full package was ever released  or completed (can't seem to find anything on the net about it though, the demos were found on an old 100% Amiga CD I used to subscribe to)...

Cheers

Franko

(just notice your last post, I already have a faster Blizzard060 board, the only reason I really bought the PPC one was to be able to run some PPC software like Lame and Frodo. As I  found out over time there was not really that much software available to take advantage of the PPC and thought OS4.0 would do the trick, but as you know by now I still haven't found a BVision board to take advantage of this.. :))

(PS: I don't really hate OS3.5 & 3.9, just reckon they could have been written a bit better and tidied up somewhat... :))
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Hello my first Thread
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2010, 04:42:39 PM »
Quote from: Franko;597583
I wouldn't want to write using C as I prefer coding in assembly, you wouldn't happen to know of an assembly compiler for writing in PPC would you... :)
 
Also have you ever heard of PPC680X0 from Coyote Flux, It was/is a 68K to PPC source-code convertor. I have two demo versions of this that were released in 1999 but I don't think a full package was ever released or completed (can't seem to find anything on the net about it though, the demos were found on an old 100% Amiga CD I used to subscribe to)...

gas (the gnu assembler) should support PPC. Personally I'd code in C though, because manually optimising code on a pipelined processor is quite hard. On a lot of recent processors it's quite hard to beat the compiler in some circumstances.
 
I met the coyote flux guys at a show when they were touting ppc680x0. It became free in 2004, http://www.coyoteflux.nl/ I doubt they ever made any money on it.
 
They were pretty crazy guys, IIRC one of them had really mad hair. Pretty unlucky too, their last project for the GBA came out just after the DS.
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Hello my first Thread
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2010, 04:52:20 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;597587
gas (the gnu assembler) should support PPC. Personally I'd code in C though, because manually optimising code on a pipelined processor is quite hard. On a lot of recent processors it's quite hard to beat the compiler in some circumstances.
 
I met the coyote flux guys at a show when they were touting ppc680x0. It became free in 2004, http://www.coyoteflux.nl/ I doubt they ever made any money on it.
 
They were pretty crazy guys, IIRC one of them had really mad hair. Pretty unlucky too, their last project for the GBA came out just after the DS.


Thank's for the info, I don't fancy learning C though as I really don't like C code and the bloated results it gives... :)

Reckon those CoyoteFlux guys must be a bit crazy to have even produced that bit of code in the first place, need to have a look on the link you gave and see if they actually finished it... :)
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Hello my first Thread
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2010, 04:59:21 PM »
@ psxphill

Drat... the download link on the CoyotteFlux site for PPC680X0 doesn't work, I can download the source code sample files but not the actual program itself... :(
 

Offline kickstart

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Re: Hello my first Thread
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2010, 05:50:38 PM »
@Templario

Really are you restricted of aw.net for this reason? Theres so much users like extremist islamic these days.
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Hello my first Thread
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2010, 06:16:41 PM »
Quote from: Franko;597583
@ karlos

I've always fancied having a go at writing some PPC code, all those extra registers to play with and the challenge of mastering a new language. Only trouble is I don't know of any specific assembler package for writing in PPC.


vasm would be an obvious one.

Quote
I wouldn't want to write using C as I prefer coding in assembly, you wouldn't happen to know of an assembly compiler for writing in PPC would you... :)

Also have you ever heard of PPC680X0 from Coyote Flux, It was/is a 68K to PPC source-code convertor. I have two demo versions of this that were released in 1999 but I don't think a full package was ever released  or completed (can't seem to find anything on the net about it though, the demos were found on an old 100% Amiga CD I used to subscribe to)...)


Sure, I have the last trial version, but I can't say I used it much.
int p; // A
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Hello my first Thread
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2010, 06:17:52 PM »
Quote from: kickstart;597597
Theres so much users like extremist islamic these days.


Do you mind? Some of us take offence at that.
int p; // A
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Hello my first Thread
« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2010, 06:22:09 PM »
Quote from: Franko;597589
Thank's for the info, I don't fancy learning C though as I really don't like C code and the bloated results it gives... :)


I dunno, it isn't that bad. Sure you can write much more compact code in assembler if you know what you are doing but I see the real advantage of using assembler as a means for performance, rather than size optimisation.

Personally, I'd much rather develop code in C, then tune the algorithms and finally, if necessary, reimplement any bottleneck parts that would benefit (ie aren't bound by IO or whatever) in assembler.
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Offline kickstart

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Re: Hello my first Thread
« Reply #72 on: December 07, 2010, 06:36:09 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;597606
Do you mind? Some of us take offence at that.


Sorry but offense for this sentence its so stupid.
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Offline Franko

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Re: Hello my first Thread
« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2010, 06:40:06 PM »
Cheers Karlos

Found VAsm here and downloaded it, need to start studying PPC opcodes now...:)

http://sun.hasenbraten.de/vasm/index.php?view=binaries

Pity it's not an integrated package like DevPac, seems I need to use VLink and it's not 100% compatible with DevPac produced source, shouldn't be a problem though...:)

Ah well beggars can't be choosers...:)
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Hello my first Thread
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2010, 06:40:53 PM »
Quote from: kickstart;597612
Sorry but offense for this sentence its so stupid.


Considering someone was given a temporary ban for basically using the word "zionist", explain why I shouldn't take an equal measure off offence at people banding around expressions like "islamic extremist"?

Besides, I've yet to meet another muslim anywhere that's as loony and extreme as your average amiga user ;)
int p; // A