Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Games FX or music question  (Read 2442 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Paulie85Topic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 146
  • Country: 00
    • Show only replies by Paulie85
Games FX or music question
« on: November 28, 2010, 08:18:11 PM »
I downloaded some Amiga games I hadn't played for years and I was reminded of one of my pet peeves. Some games(e.g. Leander,Chuck Rock, Elvira Arcade...) make you choose between sound fx and music which really takes away from the gaming experience.  If games such as Beast and Turrican can have both whilst being impressive graphically why can't these others as well? Is it just lazy programming?

PS Why don't more games make use of EHB mode as it double the amount of colours?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2010, 08:30:10 PM by Paulie85 »
 

Offline Piru

  • \' union select name,pwd--
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 6946
    • Show only replies by Piru
    • http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/
Re: Games FX or music question
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2010, 08:20:41 PM »
In order to have both the music must be created with 3 channels. Then 1 channel can be reserved for effects.

Making music with only 4 channels is damned hard. Making it with just 3 is even harder.
 

Offline Paulie85Topic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 146
  • Country: 00
    • Show only replies by Paulie85
Re: Games FX or music question
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2010, 08:25:13 PM »
Quote from: Piru;595069

Making music with only 4 channels is damned hard. Making it with just 3 is even harder.

Thanks Piru, so it is down to the skill of the musician.
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show only replies by commodorejohn
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: Games FX or music question
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2010, 08:33:18 PM »
Yeah, pretty much. It would be technically possible to have one channel of a four-channel song interruptible by the sound effects, but it would be tricky to compose songs that sound all right if one part suddenly cuts out. Doable, though.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline Cammy

Re: Games FX or music question
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2010, 08:43:19 PM »
It could also be a memory limitation. It's possible for a game to have 4-channel music playing and have sound effects that temporarily cut out one of the music channels (like Aladdin). I'd say one of the reasons a lot of old games let you choose between Sound FX or Music is because they were designed for 512kb A500 systems which wouldn't have enough memory to hold all the samples for the game and the music as well.

The more colours you use in a game the more resources it needs to move everything around, so it took a pretty skilled coder to make a fast game that uses 32 colours, let alone 64. Another reason for EHB being underused is that it's very challenging for the pixel artist to come up with a 64 colour EHB palette that doesn't repeat colours everywhere. Of course they could just focus on the first 32 colours and only use the other 32 as shadow colours, like in Desert Strike, but hardly any games use the full EHB 64 colour palette for all the in-game graphics the way Fightin' Spirit does.
A1200 030@28Mhz/2MB+32MB/RTC/KS3.1/IDE-CF+4GB/4-Way Clockport Expander/IndivisionAGA/PCMCIA NIC
A1200 020@14Mhz/2MB+8MB/FPU/RTC/KS3.0/IDE-CF+2GB/S-Video
CD32 020@14Mhz/2MB+8MB/RTC/KS3.1/IDE-CF+4GB
A600 030@30Mhz/2MB+64MB/RTC/IDE-CF+4GB/Subway USB/S-Video/PCMCIA NIC/USB Numeric Keypad+Hub+Mouse+Control Pad
A500 000@7Mhz/512kB+512kB/ROM Switcher/KS3.1+1.3/S-Video

Get AmigaOS
 

Offline Karlos

  • Sockologist
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 16879
  • Country: gb
  • Thanked: 5 times
    • Show only replies by Karlos
Re: Games FX or music question
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2010, 08:46:47 PM »
Quote from: Piru;595069
In order to have both the music must be created with 3 channels. Then 1 channel can be reserved for effects.

Making music with only 4 channels is damned hard. Making it with just 3 is even harder.


Then there was AB3D 2 which, at least in it's 4-channel configuration had 3 channels for sound effects and one for music :lol:
int p; // A
 

Offline Paulie85Topic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 146
  • Country: 00
    • Show only replies by Paulie85
Re: Games FX or music question
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2010, 09:05:20 PM »
Quote from: Cammy;595073
I'd say one of the reasons a lot of old games let you choose between Sound FX or Music is because they were designed for 512kb A500 systems which wouldn't have enough memory to hold all the samples for the game and the music as well.

Yeah, I was thinking memory may be an issue, that's why I was a little disappointed when Leander said "Extra memory detected and used" but still made me choose between fx and music.
Also on the ehb palette, I found that if you made your first 32 really bright the last 32 were more useful rather than being relegated to shadow colours.
 

Offline runequester

  • It\'s Amiga time!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 3695
    • Show only replies by runequester
Re: Games FX or music question
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2010, 02:40:38 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;595071
Yeah, pretty much. It would be technically possible to have one channel of a four-channel song interruptible by the sound effects, but it would be tricky to compose songs that sound all right if one part suddenly cuts out. Doable, though.

Turrican 2 does this quite a bit.
 

Offline kedawa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2004
  • Posts: 700
    • Show only replies by kedawa
Re: Games FX or music question
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2010, 06:43:45 AM »
I wonder if anyone ever made a game for Amiga where the sound effects are triggered in time with the beat, sort of like Rez.
That would be very groovy.
 

Offline Khephren

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 606
    • Show only replies by Khephren
Re: Games FX or music question
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2010, 07:56:57 AM »
That would be cool, loads of demo's do it. But I can't think of a game that does.