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AuthorTopic: Linux/Windows flame wars  (Read 2775 times)

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Offline Iggy

Re: Linux/Windows flame wars
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2010, 04:12:03 AM »
I'm evenly split between MorphOS and Ubuntu. So I guess I'm not completely absorbed with 20 year old equipment.
If you can't use it for everyday applications, In can't see the point in it.
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Offline kedawa

Re: Linux/Windows flame wars
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2010, 04:26:12 AM »
I can't see the point of 99% of the shit people do with their computers.
As far as I'm concerned, using an old Amiga to play games and be creative is far more worthwhile than what the average joe does with his PC, i.e. porn and facebook
 

Offline Arkhan

Re: Linux/Windows flame wars
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2010, 04:43:39 AM »
Quote from: kedawa;593718
I can't see the point of 99% of the shit people do with their computers.
As far as I'm concerned, using an old Amiga to play games and be creative is far more worthwhile than what the average joe does with his PC, i.e. porn and facebook

there are games on facebook, and some porn is pretty creative.

be quiet.

oh and porn has been around since the C64 days.  Quit being a bigot.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2010, 04:54:32 AM by Arkhan »
I am a negative, rude, prick.  


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Offline Kesa

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Re: Linux/Windows flame wars
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2010, 06:24:26 AM »
I know why Linux hasn't gained mainstream popularity with the normal consumer. And i know why it never will.

It's because it doesn't cost anything. People associate a higher cost to higher quality. Because Windows 7 Ultimate has a price tag of A$268 the normal consumer will identify this as superior in quality than, say, Linux which is completely free.

Also lack of advertising from a major corporation like Microsoft means Linux has no awareness to the normal consumer.

Basic micro-economics    
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Offline runequester

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Re: Linux/Windows flame wars
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2010, 07:06:02 AM »
Quote from: Kesa;593743
I know why Linux hasn't gained mainstream popularity with the normal consumer. And i know why it never will.

It's because it doesn't cost anything. People associate a higher cost to higher quality. Because Windows 7 Ultimate has a price tag of A$268 the normal consumer will identify this as superior in quality than, say, Linux which is completely free.

Also lack of advertising from a major corporation like Microsoft means Linux has no awareness to the normal consumer.

Basic micro-economics    


A very large share of servers run linux (including amiga.org according to netcraft)

The US department of defense and several other gov agencies across the world run linux

The vast vast majority of the worlds super computers run linux

The embedded market is heavily linux

Cell phones? 160.000 android phones a day, running the linux kernel

Giant corporations like HP, IBM and Google ? All pushing linux as core businesses



The idea that there is a battle, or that its somehow about desktop computers is one that Microsoft wants to peddle, so they can look like they are still relevant in today's electronics market.
 

Offline kedawa

Re: Linux/Windows flame wars
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2010, 07:19:03 AM »
There's also the simple fact that most people who actually make a living coding for and contributing to Linux aren't in it for the desktop market.
It's all kind of moot anyway.  I don't think the consumer desktop PC is long for this world.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

Re: Linux/Windows flame wars
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2010, 07:54:00 AM »
Personally I couldnt really care less. People will use what theyre confortable with and/or enjoy and good luck to them for that. Surely an amiga based site and it's people understand that ? As for why Windows is so dominant, there's plenty of reasons. Firstly (besides marketting) it's software. As good as some open source software has become, for the most part it's inferior to dedicated commercial efforts (with obvious reason). Also, exposure. Windows is everywhere. You can go into a shop and buy software for it. Without this sort of every day exposure something will seem "strange" to people. Also, and Im sure long time linux users might disagree as they've by now learned how it works, but Linux simply isnt as friendly, even the more popular distros arent as easy to get your head around as Windows. Honsetly I think something like AROS has more chance in the future to gain mainstream users (although I doubt that'll happen still), Linux is typically just too cumbersome. Where's all the big name games for Linux. Resident Evils, Silent Hill, FInal Fantasy, etc, etc. ?   Yes Im aware that Linux gaming is a little bigger than it once was, and through WINE a lot of software can run (typically with somewhat inferior performance to on Windows), but Joe Public doesnt care to have to tweak/update thier system, so again it falls into the "weird" category for them, and they'd prefer a "normal" machine.

And yes, Im aware that many of these shortcomings of Linux can be redeemed, but people want something that works out of the box and makes sense to them without having to learn.

At the end of the day I'll just use the right tool/system for the right job. I have no allegiance to anything but myself and my interests/needs/budget. Having said that it's as clear as the nose on my face as to why Linux hasnt taken off on the desktop (a lot of the mainstream users who use it do so because of computer enthusiast friends/family talking them into it).

As for desktops being on thier way out,... what a crock. Netbook/laptop sales have dropped recently due to saturation, and for many things a desktop machine with a larger screen, nice sound system, more powerful hardware, etc. is by far the best experience. The format itself is simply more practical a lot of the time.

Anyway, each to thier own, and I couldnt care less if complete strangers use Windows, Linux, Mac OSX, or GeOS. The only OS users I care much about are amiga based os users, as the more there are the better the experience (new users brings new developers and also more people for me to inflict my own software upon :)).
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline Kesa

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Re: Linux/Windows flame wars
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2010, 07:56:52 AM »
Quote from: kedawa;593751
There's also the simple fact that most people who actually make a living coding for and contributing to Linux aren't in it for the desktop market.
It's all kind of moot anyway.  I don't think the consumer desktop PC is long for this world.

I disagree. There will always be desktop pcs. They are as cheap as hell and i can't think of anything that is cheaper. As long as they are the cheapest form of pc they will exist.
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Offline runequester

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Re: Linux/Windows flame wars
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2010, 08:09:36 AM »
Quote from: fishy_fiz;593757
Personally I couldnt really care less. People will use what theyre confortable with and/or enjoy and good luck to them for that. Surely an amiga based site and it's people understand that ? As for why Windows is so dominant, there's plenty of reasons. Firstly (besides marketting) it's software. As good as some open source software has become, for the most part it's inferior to dedicated commercial efforts (with obvious reason).

Firefox, Google Chrome (combined 43% of market share) and Apache (58% of server market) seems to disagree with you.

You are misunderstanding how software works, though.
The operating system and the software you run on it have nothing to do with each other. You can use proprietary software on linux (I own Quake wars and Prey f.x.) and you can use open source software on windows (firefox f.x.)


Quote
Also, and Im sure long time linux users might disagree as they've by now learned how it works, but Linux simply isnt as friendly, even the more popular distros arent as easy to get your head around as Windows.

Take two people with no previous computer experience and sit one in front of a linux machine, and one in front of a windows machine. I'll guarantee there'll be no difference in their ability to do their daily stuff. Why would there? Either way, you are just clicking on icons.

Windows is familiar because you've already used it, not because there's somehow anything more intuitive or helpful about it. (if you don't believe me, google "windows troubleshooting" or similar and see how many millions of hits you get.


Will linux ever "rule" the desktop ?

No more than amiga ever would have ruled it.

Does it matter ?

No. The choice is there for those who want it (stability, freedom). The desktop is only one tiny bit of what linux is, can and does.
 

Offline runequester

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Re: Linux/Windows flame wars
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2010, 08:19:35 AM »
Quote from: Kesa;593758
I disagree. There will always be desktop pcs. They are as cheap as hell and i can't think of anything that is cheaper. As long as they are the cheapest form of pc they will exist.


It always amuses me a bit that I can buy a PC that will stay fully usable and good for the next 5-6 years easy for about the same cost as my A1200 back in 92 :)
 

Offline Daedalus

Re: Linux/Windows flame wars
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2010, 08:34:03 AM »
Quote from: Kesa;593743
I know why Linux hasn't gained mainstream popularity with the normal consumer. And i know why it never will.

It's because it doesn't cost anything. People associate a higher cost to higher quality. Because Windows 7 Ultimate has a price tag of A$268 the normal consumer will identify this as superior in quality than, say, Linux which is completely free.

Also lack of advertising from a major corporation like Microsoft means Linux has no awareness to the normal consumer.

Basic micro-economics    


Yes, and there's also the same reason that so many people still use Internet Explorer - the computer came with it and it works, so what reason have they got for changing it? Even online it's still very hard to find PCs which are supplied with Linux. If people were more aware and were offered their laptop for €50 less than normal because it has Linux instead of Windows on it, more people would go for it because 50 quid is 50 quid, and all they're doing is looking at Facebook anyway, and Farmville is as adventurous as their gaming gets. I do appreciate though that this would need lots of investment from PC suppliers though, for technical support staff and for marketing, and again, why would they bother when Windows works adequately?
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Offline Daedalus

Re: Linux/Windows flame wars
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2010, 08:36:42 AM »
Quote from: runequester;593760
It always amuses me a bit that I can buy a PC that will stay fully usable and good for the next 5-6 years easy for about the same cost as my A1200 back in 92 :)


Yeah, PCs are getting better at longevity alright, though it does depend on how you use them. I've already had a couple of Windows 7 PCs to reinstall, both less than a year old, because the owners had installed all manner of crud on them and stopped them from booting.
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Offline runequester

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Re: Linux/Windows flame wars
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2010, 08:39:11 AM »
Quote from: Daedalus;593762
Yeah, PCs are getting better at longevity alright, though it does depend on how you use them. I've already had a couple of Windows 7 PCs to reinstall, both less than a year old, because the owners had installed all manner of crud on them and stopped them from booting.


I was more thinking of raw hardware specs, but your point is well taken. Take care of your machine and it'll probably last a long time. Go easy on the midget-goat movies and people will likely be better off :)

Outside of specialized tasks like hardcore FPS games (and those things are moving to the consoles anyways), virtual machines or heavy video editing, its hard to imagine any task where a plain 3-4 gigs of RAM would be insufficient.
 

Offline kedawa

Re: Linux/Windows flame wars
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2010, 09:41:39 AM »
Quote from: Kesa;593758
I disagree. There will always be desktop pcs. They are as cheap as hell and i can't think of anything that is cheaper. As long as they are the cheapest form of pc they will exist.

Netbooks are cheaper, and it won't be long before tablets are too.
I think once those devices are capable of replacing the desktop for the average user, which isn't that far off, the market will shift away from the desktop form factor completely.  Bathroom internet is the killer app of the future, after all.  There's a big opportunity there for iOS and Android to take users away from Windows.

Notebooks will have a much longer life, and Windows will be on nine out of ten of those machines, but the typical big beige box has one foot in the grave already.

There will always be desktop workstations and monster gaming rigs, but the consumer desktop will get displaced by other devices sooner rather than later.
 

Offline coldfish

Re: Linux/Windows flame wars
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2010, 10:00:59 AM »
I use Linux, Windows, OSX almost daily and each one has its strong points over the others but I dont have a stron preference either way.  
It's a case of the "best" tool for the job; want to play games use Windows (or a console), want to create use OSX want to roll your own code use Linux. Of course you can do all these things on just one platform but variety is not as bad a thing as the fanbois say.