Special Super Denise in A3000?

[desantii]

Is the Super Denise in the A3000 different from other Super Denise chips? I have an A3000 with rev 9/03 motherboard, just for testing I removed the Super Denise Chip and tried a Super Denise from a 500+ and a regular Denise from an A2000, in both cases no boot. I thought all Denise chips were mutually compatible?
 
I remember using at one point a regukar Denise on an A3000 (different MB rev)
 
Thanks

[save2600]

You know... I ran into this same exact scenario a couple of months ago. According to the BBOAH, the Denise chips should be 100% compatible - but they are not. Unless there are different part numbers and revisions specific to certain models that aren't exploited, I am at a loss as to why you can't simply swap 'em out. Weird. It's not like the A3000 version is a true 32-bit chip or something.  :lol:

Or is it?  lmao

[mechy]

If i'm understanding you right here is my take on it... The super denise in the 3000 is a ECS denise, the A2000 in most cases is not ecs(some were) and that might explain why the 2000 denise doesn't work. The A500+ may of also had a regular denise chip and not ECS.. compare part numbers. were they all 8373.just a guess but the A500+ was a pal machine and the A3000 is switchable.. i would think this would mainly affect agnus,but maybe a clue to why the denise doesn't work so take it with a grain of salt( i have absolutely no proof on this).

I have used the ECS denise from a A3000 in the 2000 though with the right agnus.
Plugging the 8373 into the 1000 makes for some purdy colors and artifacts if memory serves..problem is you can't change the A1000 agnus since its dip and not plcc.
If all the chips are indeed 8373 ECS super denise,then maybe the A3000 agnus was swapped out wrong or is a early one?Not 100% sure this would affect it,but i have seen some odd stuff with A3000 chip revisions.Its not unreasonable to think there might be chip compatibility problems in the bazillion revisions thru the A3000's life.

mike

[Selles]

Did you remember to plug the daughter board back in before testing?  A Denise chip from an Amiga 2000 should also work.  Afterall, the Amiga 3000 is nothing more then an Amiga 2000 with the A2091, A2320 Amber, and the Commodore 68030 boards built in.

[save2600]

Did you remember to plug the daughter board back in before testing?  A Denise chip from an Amiga 2000 should also work.  Afterall, the Amiga 3000 is nothing more then an Amiga 2000 with the A2091, A2320 Amber, and the Commodore 68030 boards built in.

Add the fact it's natively a 32-bit machine (unlike the 2000), based on 32-bit bus architecture  

[Selles]

With a Commodore A3630 board installed, an Amiga 2000 becomes a 32-bit machine.  Also, keep in mind, there is really not that much difference between 24-bit (Amiga 2000) and 32-bit (Amiga 3000).  In fact, did you know that an Amiga 2000 with an 030 board installed actually runs faster then an Amiga 3000 with an 030?

[desantii]

I'll try a little more chip swapping to see if I get lucky, but I am inclined as it was suggested could just be the multiple chip revisions

[lost_loven]

switched out from my a500 to my a3000 the Paula and both CIA chips no problem..
hope this helps.. still working great!

lost

[mechy]

With a Commodore A3630 board installed, an Amiga 2000 becomes a 32-bit machine.  Also, keep in mind, there is really not that much difference between 24-bit (Amiga 2000) and 32-bit (Amiga 3000).  In fact, did you know that an Amiga 2000 with an 030 board installed actually runs faster then an Amiga 3000 with an 030?

I assume you meant a A2630??? the 3630 is not for the 2000.and the zorro bus is still NOT 32bit even with a accelerator.
there is quite a bit difference speed wise from the A2000 to 3000. the 2000 will always have slower zorro2,while the 3000 has zorro3.
Of course there are some A2000 accelerators with 030/50,of course it beats a stock 3000/25 but if u want to compare accelerators,the A3000 with a cyberstorm ppc still wins. silly comparison.

comparing stock machines is no contest. comparing only cpu speed is not usefull either ,stick a z2 gfx card in that 2000 and compare it with a z3 gfx card in the 3000...

[Zac67]

The A3k's CPU bus differs from the A2630 quite a bit in design.
The SCSI controller has 32 bit access (SDMAC) and the ChipRAM is 32 bit wide as well - even though the chipset can only 16 bit at a time, the CPU does longwords. Add to this the Z III expansion bus and you've got a bit more than an expanded 2000.

As to Denise versions: my 3000 inherited the Hires Denise from my 500 without problems - and when I worked for a Commodore dealer there was only one Hires Denise version up for ordering.

[Selles]

There are 2 versions of the Super Denise chip, r3 and r4.
 
An Amiga 2000 with an 030/25 is faster then an Amiga 3000 with an 030/25.
 
Now, graphics is a different story.  They tend to be slightly faster on the Zorro III bus.

[countzero]

With a Commodore A3630 board installed, an Amiga 2000 becomes a 32-bit machine.

erm, no it does not become a 32 bit machine. the bus is still 16 bits. ROM access is 16 bits.

[Selles]

WRONG! Do your homework, I have.
 
The Amiga 2000's bus is 24 bits wide, not 16 bits (I can not remember where I read this, but it stuck in my brain because I thaught it was odd).
 
The reason why an Amiga 2000 will usually be faster then and Amiga 3000 or 4000, both using the same processor, is because the Amiga 2000 does not have a Super Buster chip, which is a bottle-neck on the Amiga 3000 and 4000 machines.
 
This fact is actually printed in the Video Toaster manual.

[billt]

WRONG! Do your homework, I have.
 
The Amiga 2000 is 24 bits wide, not 16 bits.
 
The reason why an Amiga 2000 will usually be faster then and Amiga 3000 or 4000, both using the same processor, is because the Amiga 2000 does not have a Super Buster chip, which is a bottle-neck on the Amiga 3000 and 4000 machines.

Amiga2000 is 24bitaddress, which provides for 16MB total address space. This has nothing to do with speed, only with size. Amiga2000 has 16 data bits, this is what has to do with speed.

SuperBuster may be a bottleneck between the CPU and the Zorro3 slots, but if not accessing Zorro cards, I'm not sure what it has to do with anything.

[tone007]

An Amiga 2000 with an 030/25 is faster then an Amiga 3000 with an 030/25.

I could believe this if you're only using the 2MB or 4MB of RAM on your 2630.  Once you fill that up and move into ZII memory boards, I can't imagine the 2000 still winning.

(unless of course you've got the super rare memory addon for the 2630, in which case you should sell the whole setup and buy a 3000 or 4000. )