man, the C64 had all the cool shoot em ups

[Khephren]

I think maybe the thread title got him blowing steam 'man, the C64 had all the cool shoot em ups'
I took it to mean....the c64 got the good shooters, the Amiga, not so much (seeing as this is Amiga.org)

I think Arkhan took it as...compared to every other 8bit....ever.

[Arkhan]

I never said (or even implied) there was anything wrong with pointing out that a lot of c64 shooter conversions werent good, heck, even I did it, merely that it's not the way to judge a genre on a particular system, as most of your posts have alluded to (you even bought up double dragon for Pete's sake).
Just a thought but maybe you should stop clutching at straws here trying to dismiss c64 shooters. By now you're just embarassing yourself. Everyone else seems to see it, but you continue to argue for the sake of arguing. Let it go dude, it's more than obvious most dont agree with you. To each his own.

I never said you said that. I was talking to Sgt. Fail up there above you. I dont see the big deal with saying/thinking the C64 shooters suck. I'm sure im not alone. There are better options out there, lol. The c64 had some awesome adventure and RPG games though.
 
Its not really embarassing myself either if im not wrong, and I've explained some valid opinions as to WHY they aren't kickass.
 

1) You were living in Japan then Arkhan, at the time of release? Or did you have to wait till '89 like everyone else?

Location of release is irrelevant to time of release. The hardware date is what we're comparing. The hardware didn't change in 2 years. Try to use some common sense there champ.
 

4) If you think processor speed is not important, then there is only one 'dumbass' here, and I don't think it's me (on this occassion).
 
Yes I see how that works, iv'e been in videogame dev for 14 years, so I do have some small inkling.

Processor speed *is* important, but not when its 6ish mhz on a 6502 based chip that can flip down to the slow mode,and has the same setbacks as the slow one either way. Some commercial games even USE the slow mode, and you can't even tell. You're staring at the glory of the video chip, not the glory of 6 extra mhz.
 
Youd think with 14 years of game dev experience, youd understand that video is far more important than cpu.
 
Case in point: SuperCPU on the c64. Metal dust has SO MANY MORE MHZ OMG GO GO GO, but the games still ass ugly and sucks.
 
Case in point 2: the z80 is faster than the 6502. The spectrum looks like shit. The games mostly blow because of that.
 
I dont think you really see how it works at all.
 
 
and yeah I took it to mean every 8bit ever.
 
and by your logic, were not allowed to compare the c64 to the amiga anyways, so why would you think thats what the threads comparing?
 
You change your mind alot.  Do you take a pill to regulate that?
*wipes your chin* Here, you had a little drool on you.

[fishy_fiz]

Err,... you might want to keep track of things. It's all in this thread so changing your tune, etc. doesnt really work. What youve just now said you didnt say to me was quoted from my response to something you addressed to me.

As I suggested earlier it mightn't be a bad idea to call it quits here. You're doing yourself no favors.

[Arkhan]

Err,... you might want to keep track of things. It's all in this thread so changing your tune, etc. doesnt really work. What youve just now said you didnt say to me was quoted from my response to something you addressed to me.
 
As I suggested earlier it mightn't be a bad idea to call it quits here. You're doing yourself no favors.

oh, whoops.  I thought khephren was the one that said the shit about conversions/benchmarks/stuff.  My bad.  
 
Im not changing my tune, I just dont pay much attention to who Im yelling at usually, :laughing:
 
 
The games designed for the system werent so hot either though usually.   I liked parallax, like I said in my first post.  That one was good.   I never understood why Katakis was so popular.  
 
and Uridium.  That game is dumb.

[Khephren]

well, i'm done talking to him.

Did anyone ever play IO, i got it  as a budget release, that was pretty cool.
Also, http://c64s.com/ has an online emu, so I'm going to try some of these as they are mentioned.

[Arkhan]

well, i'm done talking to him.
 

Good. I didnt want to talk to you anyways.
 
I maintain that parallax was the best shooter on the system.

[fishy_fiz]

well, i'm done talking to him.

Did anyone ever play IO, i got it  as a budget release, that was pretty cool.
Also, http://c64s.com/ has an online emu, so I'm going to try some of these as they are mentioned.

Yep, I loved IO. Was the first game I bought if I recall correctly. Pretty difficult game, but I eventually managed to complete it. Quite nice graphics for the C64 and cool end of level bad guys too.

[yakumo9275]

1) dumbass, the PCE came out in 87, but was developed in 86
 
2) 6-2 = 4.

aah revisionist history. You want to play the "developed in" game.

I can play that game too, C64 was developed in 81.
86 - 81 = 5.

hell, the C64 is just a beefed yup VIC-20 and that came out in 1980 and was developed in 1979..

Anyway, it was nice to describe your original posting of "at the time" since "at the time" the PCEngine didnt exist in 1982, and "at the time" the MSX didnt exist either.

PCEngine is listed as 4th generation console, C64 came out in the era of second generation. Thats quite a technological gap.

The c64 shooters were certainly better than its competition (apple, trs80/coco, ti99, spectrum, atari xl's, bbc micro).

I dont remember TGX16 ever coming to Australia, I never saw one up close until much later on when I was in England. Since TGX16 was designed to be nothing but a _games console_, one would hope its shooters would be better quality than something designed 5 years prior as a computer, with its 1 button joystick designed to be compatible with old atari 2600 sticks, whose joystick interface was designed in 1977... maybe in 1977 they didnt think you needed more than 1 button on a stick...

All this is irrelevant since Radiant Silvergun owns all other shooters that exist ever!!

C64 shooters couldnt have been too bad, afterall it sold 30million units, while TGX16 sold only 10 million..

[fishy_fiz]

All this is irrelevant since Radiant Silvergun owns all other shooters that exist ever!!

Hehe. Fantastic game, but also probably the most expensive shooter ever  (now at least)

Another machine who's original titles are typically more impressive than its versions of multiformat games and/or conversions.

[redrumloa]

A friendly reminder to all, follow the TOS. No personal attacks and treat each other with respect, or moderators will get nasty.:angry:

[Hattig]

It's a bit unfair comparing mid 80s technology to late 70s technology. The transistor budget difference is quite a lot.

The C64 was nice, but it needed a configurable colour palette rather than the mud-themed palette it had.

The Spectrum would have been okay with hardware sprites and a configurable palette. But it didn't have them. Nor hardware scrolling. So it sucked unless the game was designed with them in mind.

The palettes didn't need to be amazing, the Amstrad CPC did well with a 27 colour palette (but cocked it up by having a 16KB bitmapped display).

[GobanToba]

aah revisionist history. You want to play the "developed in" game.

I can play that game too, C64 was developed in 81.
86 - 81 = 5.

hell, the C64 is just a beefed yup VIC-20 and that came out in 1980 and was developed in 1979..

Anyway, it was nice to describe your original posting of "at the time" since "at the time" the PCEngine didnt exist in 1982, and "at the time" the MSX didnt exist either.

Maybe some clarification would help as far as what was meant be "man, the C64 had all the cool shoot em ups".

Had all the cool shoot em ups versus the Amiga? Vs other 8 bits? vs other systems at the time?

Versus the Amiga?
The first post mentions 4 games, but the first game, Katakis for example, I know was available for the Amiga too.

Versus systems at the time?
Katkis, Enforcer, Armalyte which the original poster mentions were all released after the PC Engine was out.  Heck, Enforcer was released in 1992.  So Vs other systems at the time seems a fair assumption to the title.

Versus other 8 bits?
The only one that was listed in the original post that wasn't out after 1987 was Sanxion which came out in1986, but was released in 1989 for the Spectrum too.  However the Spectrum was released before the C64.

Maybe the title was just a little confusing is all.

[ajlwalker]

Not sure the one button joystick is that big an issue really.

I never had a problem thumping the space bar to use a "smart bomb" during game play.

In fact I quite liked the ingenious ways programmers would find a usually intuitive joystick manouvre to get around the lack of buttons.

[Khephren]

Yeah, the 64 was good for naturalistic gradients, but perhaps they were a bit pastel for arcade games. More muted, realistic games looked ace though.
 The speccy had that weird only two colours per 8x8 block going on, that was a killer.

Although it was never used as often as it could have been, I think your right about the CPC having a nice arcade palette.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX4TDduqOXs&feature=related

[fishy_fiz]

The first post mentions 4 games, but the first game, Katakis for example, I know was available for the Amiga too.

Apart from the name and both being heavily "inspired" by RType theyre completely different games. The c64 game is much better than the Amiga game in my opinion, both technically (massive multiplexed sprites, paralax scrolling and other assorted effects) and gameplay wise.

As for comparisons between systems, I dont think that should be a problem. Sure graphics and sound will vary, but the basic formula for a 2d shooter should mean that audiovisual shortcomings shouldnt be a factor in the quality of the games themselves. There's Spectrum shooters Id prefer than some "modern" pc/xbox360/ps3 shooters and some Saturn shooters Id prefer than Gameboy stuff and all the possibilities in between.
A good game is a good game, regardless of what machine it's on.

As for the Amstrad CPC, yeah I agree, it's palette was quite nice, albiet slighty over saturated colors. More recent versions however had 4096 colors if I recall correctly. At least in the case of the GX4000. I can only assume that same hardware made its way to the computers too ?

[Khephren]

Yeah the computer varient was the CPC+ range, 32 colours from a 4096 palette, as I remember. It was a bit late in the day, and didn't get much use.

Personally, I think the C64 was stretched more than the Amiga in terms of quality as it went along (for shooters, that is).