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Author Topic: They are here! M$ and a new trick!  (Read 11366 times)

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Offline voytech

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Re: They are here! M$ and a new trick!
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2003, 09:58:55 PM »
Just found something! M$ developped an ASSIGN command for their new windback longhorns command line interface emulator (couldn't find a better word for win shell). For how long Amiga Dos had it??
 
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Offline mikeymike

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Re: They are here! M$ and a new trick!
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2003, 10:00:29 PM »
Quote
1) The slip in the launch date for Longhorn is causing the Windows group trouble meeting internal profit quotas - this will easily solve that.

I reckon Longhorn will get shelved.  I think the featureset MS wanted to release with it is going to get broken down over a number of releases, as it has done with MS and "next gen OS's" for a long time.
 

Offline Hammer

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Re: They are here! M$ and a new trick!
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2003, 10:04:11 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

mikeymike wrote:
MS-DOS compatible but with an incompatible filesystem? :roll:

Yes, think about it, there are wider-reaching implications in this.  Think operating system support.


Um... Can't we cleanroom a compatible Fat12 FS?

Precedent would probably come from GIF licensing schemes.  It’s morally repugnant IF the companies release the said standard while free (implied) then turn around and charge the customers. IF these companies have plans to charge royalties in the future why didn't they stated this fact during the initial release(back in 1980s)?    
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Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: They are here! M$ and a new trick!
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2003, 10:04:14 PM »
The nasty trick with this is that they allowed this violation of copyrights (I assume they have a copyright on FAT) until the cameras and so are generally accepted.
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Offline bloodline

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Re: They are here! M$ and a new trick!
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2003, 10:12:35 PM »
I've just remembered that all PC BIOS chips use FAT to read the boot disk... this really is a bad bad thing...

Offline CoderTopic starter

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Re: They are here! M$ and a new trick!
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2003, 10:15:16 PM »
@Speelgoedmannetje

Quote
The nasty trick with this is that they allowed this violation of copyrights (I assume they have a copyright on FAT) until the cameras and so are generally accepted.


That's the whole point. Now that they see that something is worth while charging they do. Give something for free and when it is used a lot charge for it.

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Offline Animagic

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Re: They are here! M$ and a new trick!
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2003, 10:15:34 PM »
Monopoly

No other comments :-(
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Offline Methuselas

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Re: They are here! M$ and a new trick!
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2003, 10:17:39 PM »
Seriously, Guys. Are any of you the least bit suprised at all this???

Tis a sad day, indeed. I suppose all the systems used in HELL are going to have to pay royalties too, or did ol' Bill use this as an excuse for getting out of the charges for selling his soul??
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Offline Hammer

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Re: They are here! M$ and a new trick!
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2003, 10:19:03 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
I've just remembered that all PC BIOS chips use FAT to read the boot disk... this really is a bad bad thing...

Refer to
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/developer/0,39020387,39116902,00.htm

Microsoft has expanded its relationship with BIOS maker Phoenix Technologies. BIOS support for FAT would be OK for now…
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Offline chris

Re: They are here! M$ and a new trick!
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2003, 10:20:12 PM »
Quote

CodeSmith wrote:
Besides, one of the articles said that CF manufacturers have to pay a fee for each preformatted card, that means that it's the raw format that is being licensed, not the filesystem's algorithms.


Hmm, so surely all they have to do is provide the flash memory unformatted, leaving formatting as an exercise to the user?  I assume these are just like floppy disks (which incidentally also tend to come pre-formatted with FAT FS), and don't care what format they have - so on an Amiga you could format them with FFS.

Digital cameras are another matter though, as they internally need to be able to read the filesystem.  The best bet here is to devise a custom filesystem, but that not only makes it overly complicated to read with Windows (it is near impossible to get Windows to read any non-native filesystems, just like you can't easily add drivers for new types of hardware), but makes it even more difficult to read with any other OS, because the manufacturer isn't going to provide a Linux, Mac or Amiga compatible filesystem to use with their camera.

So, much as I hate to say it, and much as I think FAT is probably the worst filesystem anybody could consider using, looking at the alternatives, digital camera wise, it is probably best if they just buy a licence.

For normal storage devices though I would leave them with no filesystem if possible and leave any formatting up to the user.

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Offline chris

Re: They are here! M$ and a new trick!
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2003, 10:24:00 PM »
Quote

Coder wrote:
That's the whole point. Now that they see that something is worth while charging they do. Give something for free and when it is used a lot charge for it.


I think there is a lesson to be learnt here: if you want to make a device which is in some way reliant on non-open non-free standards, find an open and free standard to use instead!

Chris
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Offline mikeymike

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Re: They are here! M$ and a new trick!
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2003, 10:24:11 PM »
Quote
I've just remembered that all PC BIOS chips use FAT to read the boot disk... this really is a bad bad thing...


It's not that bad.  For us anyway.  That'll get subsidised before our step in the food chain.

I'm more worried about operating system development.
 

Offline that_punk_guy

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Re: They are here! M$ and a new trick!
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2003, 10:28:54 PM »
Quote

Hammer wrote:

Microsoft has expanded its relationship with BIOS maker Phoenix Technologies. BIOS support for FAT would be OK for now…


Hmm, Microsoft and Phoenix... this trusted computer platform was brought to you by the letters D, R and M... ;-)
 

Offline mikeymike

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Re: They are here! M$ and a new trick!
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2003, 10:33:12 PM »
Quote
Hmm, Microsoft and Phoenix... this trusted computer platform was brought to you by the letters D, R and M

I was thinking that as well.  Microsoft "expanding their relationship with a company" usually means "expanding that company's hole for fun, profit and The Microsoft Way".
 

Offline GadgetMaster

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Re: They are here! M$ and a new trick!
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2003, 10:33:47 PM »
So, does anyone know how long patents last then?
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Offline Matt_H

Re: They are here! M$ and a new trick!
« Reply #29 from previous page: December 07, 2003, 10:34:08 PM »
Re: ASSIGN

Amiga has had this command forever. I'm sure it's been patented somewhere. Just got to find someone willing to prove it in court.