PPC accelerator poll

[Franko]

I don't think that is correct. The so-called standard error is the square root of [p*(1-p)/n],
where p is the probability (0.38) and n is the sample size.  Using the standard error gives only a 68% confidence of the result.  For a 95% confidence, you use ~twice the standard error.  I have no idea how many have participated in the poll, but let's say it is 100 (for example).  Then the standard error is about 5%.  So at the 68% confidence level, that would be 38% +/- 5% and at the 95% confidence level, that would be 38% +/- 10%. BUT THE REAL PROBLEM IS you're assuming that the AW website is a good representation of Amiga users.  If it is tilted toward OS4 fans, then extrapolating these results to all Amiga users is not a good idea.

You wouldn't be one of those nice Amigaworld.net erm.. chappies I mentioned earlier... :roflmao:

[Karlos]

I was going to vote yes but that would mean logging in and that site's just too OS4.x biased to me (if I logged in I might upset a few of the nerds over there...

amigaworld.net may have started out OS4 centric and have a user base that reflects that, but these days is pretty much an all formats forum, just like this place.

You wouldn't be one of those nice Amigaworld.net erm.. chappies I mentioned earlier...

Hey, don't knock 'em. There are plenty of perfectly nice people over there. When I decided to get my neglected A1 up and running again, I found the folks there most helpful.

[Franko]

@ Karlos

Not knocking them... just some could do with a sense of humor transplant...

Steve (the moderators) a good laugh though...

[takemehomegrandma]

There's a new PPC accelerator poll on AW, front page, right side. Those of you that are interested, could you please vote if you're interested.

I'm not involved in this h/w project, so please don't ask me any questions, I'm just the messenger. Err..., wait, they shoot messengers don't they? :-D

I tried to vote, but it seems that you can't vote in that poll unless you are a member of that site. So why post it here? I'm sure the members of *that site* (this is a different site) are aware of the poll anyway, since it's on the *front page*, yes?

I am not a member of that site.

I can't vote.

[tone007]

He was hoping you'd join, sheesh.

[takemehomegrandma]

amigaworld.net may have started out OS4 centric and have a user base that reflects that, but these days is pretty much an all formats forum, just like this place.

AmigaWorld.net is **NOTHING** like this place!

OK?

....

[Karlos]

I tried to vote, but it seems that you can't vote in that poll unless you are a member of that site. So why post it here? I'm sure the members of *that site* (this is a different site) are aware of the poll anyway, since it's on the *front page*, yes?

No. I'm a member but I don't check it that often and when I do, I tend to go straight to the latest posts section (just as I do here).

I am not a member of that site.

I can't vote.

Well, if you wanted to vote on it, it wouldn't be difficult to open an account.

AmigaWorld.net is **NOTHING** like this place!

OK?

Well, it certainly seems to have a higher proportion of OS4 users, but I still see plenty of classic, AROS and MorphOS discussion going on over there too, so I stand by my observation that it's an all formats sort of place.

[Franko]

AmigaWorld.net is **NOTHING** like this place!

OK?

....

You've got that right, too many brain cells over there for my liking...

(and only one person speaks scottish, ye ken... )

[Karlos]

Guys, seriously. If you want to make disparaging remarks about somebody else's forum, at least have the stones to go there and do it. Don't sit and snipe from here.

[Franko]

Sorry... Point taken...

[Franko]

@Franko (sorry I must have missed your mediator post)

I'm running a Blizzard 060/PPC and Mediator setup and I must say its awesome!

I've got a Soundblaster 128 and a Voodoo 5 5500 hooked up to it.  With the update patch OS4 runs with this setup right out of the box in RTG.

I'm personally looking forward to OS4.1 as I'm sure there will be a lot more options for it software wise as OS4 is a little thin on the ground.

I also use Amigasys4AGA and Classic Workbench P96 along with my RTG setup and they both look and run great.

I also have a stock OS3.9 setup running off the Blizzard SCSI which is nice and fast plus WarpOS/Warp3D all setup and working with the Voodoo 5.

I'm glad I got my PPC, I know it cost me an arm and a leg but I feel part of a very exclusive club and surprisingly I'm not at all worried about using it, I switch the machine on and use it daily.

Steve.

Hi Steve, just a quick couple of questions if I may...

Can you still buy the Soundblaster & Voodoo cards in the shops/online
and what speed is your BPPC running at. Mines is 60Mhz/240Mhz...

Decided I'm going to go with the mediator set up for now while I wait and see whether the X1000 or Natami ever appear.

Cheers :drink:

Franko

[Varthall]

I admit, but what matters to me is that the number of PPC Amigas is far less than the "classic" 68k ones right now.

And we, all amigans, have already a 68k processor (in a physical form or "emulated in software"), so we'll benefit for an updated "classic OS" on our old machines (and emulators).
This means you haven't to spend much money (also nothing) for improvements.

On the other end, following the PPC way, you have to buy new hardware, already proven to be very expensive (for the average pockets, at least), for a processor family whose life expectancy is far for being clear nor long (I know IBM is going on with it, but for how long?).

Some amigans already have PPC machines.

So the option of a FPGA-based processor (could be done forever if we have access to complex programmable logic) or backwards compatibility through software emulation on common hardware, is the most comfortable, cheap, valuable, long life way to go (in my opinion, of course).

But you have to buy those machine with a FPGA processor, it's the same point you were making for PPC.

Besides, all this doesn't make the 68k range CPU less dead.

Varthall

[SamuraiCrow]

@Varthall

The fact that the 68k is dead doesn't change the fact that the Amiga has been dead for years anyway but we still keep using them.  Besides, softcores are more software-upgradable therefore a larger FPGA is going to be more cost-effective than fixed logic.  Especially when you consider the costs of trying to buy a system that's fast enough to emulate a 50 MHz 68060 vs. having a 100+ MHz 680x0 softcore.

PPC doesn't have a suitable JIT in its versions of EUAE, after all, and still has no backward compatibility for the chipset in it's OS JIT.  Factoring in for the 30% code-bloat associated with PPC's RISC instruction set (which translates into poor cache performance), this leaves the choices at 68k or Pentium.  I'd choose 68k if it can be made competitive per clock (and the N68050 softcore is well optimized in that aspect).

[Franko]

I keep reading on this site that X chip can do this and Y chip can do that and how these amazing pieces of modern day manufacturing can run rings round the old M68K series.

Why then, hasn't anyone yet produced one of these holy grail chips that can completely emulate 100% such old technology as the M68K series and the Amigas custom chipset.

It's surely not beyond the scope of today's engineers/designers/ programers to create such a thing if these chips are as good as some folk claim them to be...

[Varthall]

@Varthall

The fact that the 68k is dead doesn't change the fact that the Amiga has been dead for years anyway but we still keep using them.

Actually I was pointing out Ognix' contradiction, who stated that he's not interested in a PPC accelerator since PPC is dead, while he was praising AROS for 68k although 68k is dead as well.

Varthall

[SamuraiCrow]

I'd rather it if someone brought out an Amiga-style keyboard wedge case that fits a Mini-ITX motherboard and stick in a Sam440 to run OS4, or an iMica to run Aros.

Since Aros is making its way to 68k Amigas we're going to have a major OS update soon, meaning there's even less reason to upgrade to PPC just to use a newer OS on our classics.

Even if we got a new PPC accelerator, the Sam still has USB, RTG and 16bit audio, fast ethernet and a whole bunch of other features that would be slower on a PPC-powered classic Amiga.

I agree with this.  There is no point in putting a MiniMig and PPC on the same accelerator since you'd just be using a few CIA chips in the host motherboard.

Implementing CIA chips in the FPGA softcore would be better because then you could leave the old hardware behind.  You'd only need a Kickstart 3.1 ROM image to run the new system under AmigaOS 3.x and if you really NEED PPC compatibility, give it a Sonnet Crescendo G4 accelerator in a PCI slot.

The only point I'd disagree upon is that AROS will be a major upgrade for 68k.  AfaOS already backported most of the features of AROS to AmigaOS 3.9 a long time ago.  A few features of 3.9 need to be implemented in AROS before I consider it useful on 68k:  bit-planar support for AGA or ECS would be chief among them.  Otherwise you'll still be forced to use a graphics card on all AROS apps the same way as AfaOS does now.  I think that will come eventually though.