Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86

[jorkany]

If this is true then Microsoft Windows used also Amiga GUI elements.As windows 3 is almost identical to OS/2 (stolen work from OS/2 co-development with IBM?)

I guess you don't know that Microsoft and IBM worked in collaboration on OS/2. Eventually they split. Yes, the presentation layer of OS/2 and Windows 3.x is nearly identical (visually).

[tone007]

Ive seen blizzard PPC cards and A4000Ts go for 600 dollars on multiple occasions.

$600 is a few nice lunches, $2400 is a mortgage payment.

I'm much more inclined to blow $600 on something next to useless than $2400.

[Buzzfuzz]

$600 is a few nice lunches, $2400 is a mortgage payment.
 
I'm much more inclined to blow $600 on something next to useless than $2400.

Ah if you own more than 20 Amiga's you know it gets to large figures.
Some collections exceed 10K/20K
 
But your right, it's sometimes insane, it almost looks as the prices at when the hardware was new and just released.

[takemehomegrandma]

Ive seen blizzard PPC cards and A4000Ts go for 600 dollars on multiple occasions.

Insane, I agree.

But those things are at least collectibles. Personally, I see a lot more value in an A4000T than an "Teron/AmigaOne" for instance. Don't you?

The route Hyperion is on is very difficult to understand. They deliberately opt out safe, easily obtainable HW that everyone can find and afford, in favor of something "new" (albeit not performance wise) hence unproven, at a price that most people consider being science fiction, and totally out of reach.

I am still puzzled why?

But reconnecting to the topic of this thread - When Hyperion isn't even considering the *PPC* mainstream HW options, what are the chances that they will ever consider the x86?

[runequester]

Insane, I agree.

But those things are at least collectibles. Personally, I see a lot more value in an A4000T than an "Teron/AmigaOne" for instance. Don't you?

The route Hyperion is on is very difficult to understand. They deliberately opt out safe, easily obtainable HW that everyone can find and afford, in favor of something "new" (albeit not performance wise) hence unproven, at a price that most people consider being science fiction, and totally out of reach.

I am still puzzled why?

But reconnecting to the topic of this thread - When Hyperion isn't even considering the *PPC* mainstream HW options, what are the chances that they will ever consider the x86?

well, they still sell OS4 for the SAM boards so they have that as income as well. The X1000 won't be the primary or presumably even main machine for OS4

As for why they aren't to X86, I am guessing the same reasons I suspect Morph OS isn't moving to x86. A ton of work, with uncertain return on investment, competition with AROS, a much bigger pond to swim in etc.

Who knows?

[takemehomegrandma]

well, they still sell OS4 for the SAM boards so they have that as income as well. The X1000 won't be the primary or presumably even main machine for OS4

Yes, they have those mandatory sales for the sam boards to count on. No single Sam sale wihtout OS4.1.x! That counts for something, I guess. AFAIK, the threshold for making a batch of those Sam boards is 30 or so, and I am sure they have sold at least a couple of batches.

They have also had some income from the "Timberwolf" bounty.

And they have recently raised some capital from the "X1000" pre-payment beta tester program AFAIK. (Has payments been confirmed for this? Anyone knows?)

And now they are planning some new sales of OS4.1.x towards Classic users. I'm sure they will get at least a 50 sold, or so. That's also some money...

What more, "income" wise?

Time for some merchandise sales? Probably. A shame that Hyperion can't do that...

As for why they aren't to X86, I am guessing the same reasons I suspect Morph OS isn't moving to x86. A ton of work,

Absolutely! That work effort is not to be underestimated. It's overwhelming, and that's probably why it will never happen.

with uncertain return on investment,

Please don't mix financial terms into the equations. The work on OS4 is not funded like "normal" commercial SW development project; it's mainly done on a hobby basis. So it's more a matter of what the developers are spending their time doing, rather than some cost. The cost would be the same, be them working on PPC, or X86.

competition with AROS,

Huh?!??

a much bigger pond to swim in etc.

A *living* pond, perhaps even enough to make some profit from...

[Kesa]

"Hmm, what to do, take my entire family on a nice vacation next summer, or buy this 2007 level computing technology so I can see what this gimmick thing called 'OS4' is about, at the same cost? Hmm, difficult choice..."

Errmmm... ok. Which one are you going to do? :confused:

[Amiga_Nut]

Ive seen blizzard PPC cards and A4000Ts go for 600 dollars on multiple occasions.

PPC cards in the EU go for 300-400 bucks so that's 500-700 dollars for the PPC cards alone. Maybe the real answer for OS4 increased user numbers is a new PPC board for A1200s and some tower cases. At least then it is a real Amiga + extras.  How much is a 604 PPC CPU in bulk alone though?

As to others, OS4 is an alternative to Windows, as is Linux and OS X. Choice is a good thing. The problem has always been value for money hardware to run the damned thing on!

[Iggy]

PPC cards in the EU go for 300-400 bucks so that's 500-700 dollars for the PPC cards alone. Maybe the real answer for OS4 increased user numbers is a new PPC board for A1200s and some tower cases. At least then it is a real Amiga + extras.  How much is a 604 PPC CPU in bulk alone though?

As to others, OS4 is an alternative to Windows, as is Linux and OS X. Choice is a good thing. The problem has always been value for money hardware to run the damned thing on!

Your last point reflects pretty much what everybogy has repeatedly said, the cost of the f'ing hardware's too high.

And how many 1200s are left that someone going to start PPC accelerator production again? How big is the market? 50?100? A few hundred?

Hey at least its a real Amiga?

Thank god I haven't waited for that train. It ain't pulling out of the station

[takemehomegrandma]

Errmmm... ok. Which one are you going to do? :confused:

Well, I could really use a vacation, while a "X1000" would be completely useless for me, so...

[takemehomegrandma]

Hyperion has built a house (AmigaOS4). They have built it using construction materials that *in major parts* are *loaned* (Amiga OS 3.1). Hyperion actually acknowledge in the settlement that the loaned bricks and planks (Amiga OS 3.1) used to build the OS4 house are indeed owned by Amiga Inc. Amiga Inc acknowledge in the settlement that the house is owned by Hyperion, *except* for the loaned bricks and planks they used to actually build the house, which are still owned by Amiga Inc.

Now, who owns the house?

...

Like a house built of a deck of cards; it might look like a pretty construction as long as it's left alone. But as soon as someone opens the window on a windy day and let the drag in, it can collapse in an instant.

Serious question: How does that differ from ownership?

In the long run, there is no real difference

Well guess what?

Pluritas ... is currently accepting offers to acquire the worldwide rights to the AMIGA trademarks and associated intellectual property

Wow...

[vidarh]

Meanwhile, in the real world, the idea that actually anyone else outside the very small and tight amigaworld.net/amigans.net circle *would even consider* chipping up a staggering UKP 1,500++/USD 2,400++/EUR 1,700++ (ANYONE AT ALL!!) for this kind of unproven, 2007 level performance HW, that has no other benefit than being able to run a "gimmick" (to anyone else but the above mentioned tight circle) OS4, is nothing short of ridiculous. "Hmm, what to do, take my entire family on a nice vacation next summer, or buy this 2007 level computing technology so I can see what this gimmick thing called 'OS4' is about, at the same cost? Hmm, difficult choice..."

Most people who had Amiga's as their first/second home computer as kids or teenagers are now in their 30's/40's, and thus many of us have a fairly high disposable income, and have no problem paying fairly steep amounts for our hobbies.

Some people blow GBP 15k-20k on a sports car, others spend 1,500++ on a niche computer or five. I've already spend a 200-300 or so on a Minimig, plan to buy an FPGA Arcade and a Natami, and yes, an X1000 too, and I'm considering buying a classic.  Note that this is despite having several x86 boxes, both servers and laptops, and contributing to AROS.

As of this January, I'd been away from the community for about 12 years. I came back because of the X1000.

I think you seriously underestimate the value of nostalgia and of community and what people are willing (and able) to pay for it.

Yes, the X1000 will never be a mass market product. Besides the point. It also will likely do better than a lot of naysayers are assuming. As others have pointed out, the prices for Amiga-related hardware demonstrates that this community has a lot of money. Since few people use these machines as their only or even primary computer, capabilities and performance is secondary to other aspects, and price too is down to whether or not we can afford it, not so much whether or not it's cost effective.

[tone007]

As others have pointed out, the prices for Amiga-related hardware demonstrates that this community has a lot of money.

I picture people snorting cocaine through rolled up £100 notes off of gold plated X1000s! How posh!

[the_leander]

Besides the point. It also will likely do better than a lot of naysayers are assuming.

And your evidence for this lies in what? Not to get off on a rant here, but Aeon are a completely untested and unknown quantity. You have the Sam which is a great deal more reasonable on the wallet and sales for it have pretty much dried up - practically everyone who wanted one has one.

All of this assumes that the X1000 ever ships of course. Given the slow shipment of hardware for betatesters, this really is up in the air.

 As others have pointed out, the prices for Amiga-related hardware demonstrates that this community has a lot of money.

Back at the beginning of the naughties, around 1500 people bought the ill fated AmigaOne. The community was significantly bigger then.

I would be very surprised if the Sam had sold that many.

 Since few people use these machines as their only or even primary computer, capabilities and performance is secondary to other aspects, and price too is down to whether or not we can afford it, not so much whether or not it's cost effective.

The X1000 is competing against the Sam in terms of AmigaNG-OS4 and against old mac gear for MorphOS. If your kick is nostalgia then it's competing against UAE, Minimig and classic hardware. It is entering a relatively small market from the top end, which is itself limiting.

You may well be well off, but many/most people aren't, especially with the credit crunch in full swing. Your line of reasoning might well work for you but I just can't see it translating to anyone who isn't pretty well off. Cost comes high, but even if you could afford it you are still going to be asking some pretty hard questions about what the hardware is going to offer you against the alternatives I've listed. Capabilities and performance most definitely feature heavily into any equation that is as highly priced as the X1000 promises to be.

[klx300r]

Meanwhile, in the real world, the idea that actually anyone else outside the very small and tight amigaworld.net/amigans.net circle *would even consider* chipping up a staggering UKP 1,500++/USD 2,400++/EUR 1,700++ (ANYONE AT ALL!!) for this kind of unproven, 2007 level performance HW, that has no other benefit than being able to run a "gimmick" (to anyone else but the above mentioned tight circle) OS4, is nothing short of ridiculous. "Hmm, what to do, take my entire family on a nice vacation next summer, or buy this 2007 level computing technology so I can see what this gimmick thing called 'OS4' is about, at the same cost? Hmm, difficult choice..."

careful now....the OS4.x = gimmick to you might be bait that can start a red vs blue war yet again.....just sayin

[Karlos]

Meanwhile, in the real world, the idea that actually anyone else outside the very small and tight amigaworld.net/amigans.net circle *would even consider* chipping up a staggering UKP 1,500++/USD 2,400++/EUR 1,700++ (ANYONE AT ALL!!) for this kind of unproven, 2007 level performance HW, that has no other benefit than being able to run a "gimmick" (to anyone else but the above mentioned tight circle) OS4, is nothing short of ridiculous.

I don't imagine people outside the amiga community buying the X1000 either. Sadly, the real world exists outside this community all together. Spending money, any money, on amiga stuff - especially "next gen" is nothing short of ridiculous to people that aren't already fans. What, you think that absolutely anybody outside the amiga community, is going to go on ebay to buy an obsolete mac, no matter how cheap to procure, spend 100 euros kitting it out with an OS they've never heard of that, for all it's maturity in amiga circles, is eclipsed by completely free operating systems in any area they are likely to care about?