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Author Topic: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86  (Read 43429 times)

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Offline kedawa

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #164 from previous page: October 27, 2010, 01:22:09 PM »
I don't understand how that's such an obsatcle.  Linux runs on those machines, so why couldn't BeOS?
 

Offline the_leander

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #165 on: October 27, 2010, 01:42:41 PM »
Quote from: kedawa;587469
I don't understand how that's such an obsatcle.  Linux runs on those machines, so why couldn't BeOS?


Linux took years to run on those machines.

When you're a small company that will live or die based on your next release, you can't afford to wait for years. You act now, or you're used as an object lesson for other companies.
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #166 on: October 27, 2010, 11:01:23 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;587450
I imagine that whilst there is some truth to that, the idea of other OS's running up and possibly beating them on their own hardware didn't make Jobs all that happy. This is backed up by the fact that they refused point blank to supply the necessary info to Be Inc regarding post CHRP hardware.


The desktop flora would look very different today, had Jobs had acted differently regarding the clones. As would the situation for PPC.
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Offline Fats

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #167 on: October 27, 2010, 11:17:03 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;587420
William S. Hawes is the author of AREXX, which Commodore included in OS 3 without his permission


* Citation needed.

Never heard about this before. Could you provide a reference ?

greets,
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #168 on: October 28, 2010, 01:01:38 AM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;587554
The desktop flora would look very different today, had Jobs had acted differently regarding the clones. As would the situation for PPC.


Probably true, but then Apple would have had to focus on making money via their OS and forego all that lucrative income they get from rigorously controlling their hardware market.

Steve Jobs is no genius when it comes to the design of hardware or software (hey, if you doubt me I've got some old Apple IIIs I'd like to sell you), but his marketing skills have made him I very wealthy man.

How many times have you heard an Apple customer tout something he thinks is superior (that Apple constricts in features or how its used) and defends paying more than he would for it in a more open market (maybe because he likes Steve mining his pockets while telling him what he can do with his purchase).
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Offline Tension

Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #169 on: October 28, 2010, 02:51:26 AM »
Quote from: Fats;587558
* Citation needed.

Never heard about this before. Could you provide a reference ?

greets,
Staf.


IBM and Commodore had a deal where OS/2 was allowed to use the GUI from Workbench, and CBM could use the Rexx system.

... Or something like that...

Offline desiv

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #170 on: October 28, 2010, 03:00:44 AM »
Quote from: Tension;587592
IBM and Commodore had a deal where OS/2 was allowed to use the GUI from Workbench, and CBM could use the Rexx system.
I know it's the Internet so I'm not saying this site is accurate, but that is what I heard as well.  It's on this site:

http://www.os2bbs.com/os2news/os2warp.html

Quote from: Teh Interwebs
In this timeframe, a deal was made with Commodore.  Commodore licensed  IBM's REXX scripting language for inclusion in their AmigaOS, and IBM  took many GUI design ideas from the AmigaOS for their new GUI.  With the  release of OS/2 2.0,

desiv
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #171 on: October 29, 2010, 07:04:25 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;587579
How many times have you heard an Apple customer tout something he thinks is superior (that Apple constricts in features or how its used) and defends paying more than he would for it in a more open market (maybe because he likes Steve mining his pockets while telling him what he can do with his purchase).


Thought you were talking about AmigaInc/Hyperion and the Amigaworld fans there for a while, very familiar...

;)
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Offline vidarh

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #172 on: October 29, 2010, 09:43:45 AM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;587315
If *only* 275 people bothered to answer to a poll (which most people in Amiga-land do just for political reasons, to make a statement, or to show some support, or numerous other "false" reasons), something that is close to effortless and completely free of charge, then I think it would actually be *optimistic* to think that as many as half of those will actually follow through in real life.


Meanwhile, in the real world, the idea that all potential customers would ever vote in a poll on a forum is considered ridiculous, and any sales or marketing guy would expect sales to far outstrip any results you'd get on a poll like that.

Even the idea that all potential customers are even reading a specific website - even in a small market like the Amiga market - is patently ridiculous.
 

Offline vidarh

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #173 on: October 29, 2010, 09:58:13 AM »
Quote from: paolone;587231
Gosh, if the 25:5:1 market theory I've read about longa ago (*) is somehow good and applicable, it would mean that 130 sales would be optimistic.

(*) Many years ago I read a book about product marketing (sorry, forgot title and author), and the 25:5:1 theory states that on 25 people you'll contact, 5 will show interest in your product and 1 will actually buy it. This basically means that on 275 people "willing" to buy a X1000, well... just 55 actually will.

I sincerely hope for A-Eon they will be more, many more...


You are "abusing" that ratio wildly. What those kind of ratios refers to is not self reported data on a website, but active sales.

E.g. if *you* go out and call 25 people, only 5 will be interested and 1 of those will buy, so you need to go out and actually contact 25 times as many people as you hope will buy. The ratios are also by no means set in stone - they are examples. Some products do much better, some much worse. I've done sales. I've seen those ratios.

For starters, you can't know where on that axis those 275 people fall, and you have no basis for assuming that those 275 people are the only ones interested. In fact, there is every reason to assume that since the 275 are self-selected from readers of a website, the actual number of interested people is much, much higher, even before any sales/marketing effort to contact more people. Again, I've done sales and I've done polls to determine interests, and I've seen how wildly poll numbers usually differs from reality.
 

Offline Fransexy_

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #174 on: October 29, 2010, 11:14:46 AM »
Quote from: desiv;587595
I know it's the Internet so I'm not saying this site is accurate, but that is what I heard as well.  It's on this site:

http://www.os2bbs.com/os2news/os2warp.html



desiv



If this is true then Microsoft Windows used also Amiga GUI elements.As windows 3 is almost identical to OS/2 (stolen work from OS/2 co-development with IBM?)

OS/2:




Windows 3:

DON\'T TAKE LIFE SO SERIOUSLY AFTER ALL NOBODY GETS OUT ALIVE OF IT
 

Offline Hammer

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #175 on: October 29, 2010, 01:16:08 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;587450
I imagine that whilst there is some truth to that, the idea of other OS's running up and possibly beating them on their own hardware didn't make Jobs all that happy. This is backed up by the fact that they refused point blank to supply the necessary info to Be Inc regarding post CHRP hardware.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maIgu_7oLm0

Steve Jobs increased the license fees.
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #176 on: October 29, 2010, 05:43:13 PM »
Quote from: vidarh;587850
Meanwhile, in the real world, the idea that all potential customers would ever vote in a poll on a forum is considered ridiculous, and any sales or marketing guy would expect sales to far outstrip any results you'd get on a poll like that.

Even the idea that all potential customers are even reading a specific website - even in a small market like the Amiga market - is patently ridiculous.


Meanwhile, in the real world, the idea that actually anyone else outside the very small and tight amigaworld.net/amigans.net circle *would even consider* chipping up a staggering UKP 1,500++/USD 2,400++/EUR 1,700++ (ANYONE AT ALL!!) for this kind of unproven, 2007 level performance HW, that has no other benefit than being able to run a "gimmick" (to anyone else but the above mentioned tight circle) OS4, is nothing short of ridiculous. "Hmm, what to do, take my entire family on a nice vacation next summer, or buy this 2007 level computing technology so I can see what this gimmick thing called 'OS4' is about, at the same cost? Hmm, difficult choice..."

I'd say that a poll or an offer for a betatest program on those two sites alone *more* than covers the whole potential user customer base, since this is where the people are that will pay *any amount* of money for *anything at all* with the right trade mark slapped on it!
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline runequester

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #177 on: October 29, 2010, 05:46:01 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;587939
Meanwhile, in the real world, the idea that actually anyone else outside the very small and tight amigaworld.net/amigans.net circle *would even consider* chipping up a staggering UKP 1,500++/USD 2,400++/EUR 1,700++ (ANYONE AT ALL!!) for this kind of unproven, 2007 level performance HW, that has no other benefit than being able to run a "gimmick" (to anyone else but the above mentioned tight circle) OS4, is nothing short of ridiculous. "Hmm, what to do, take my entire family on a nice vacation next summer, or buy this 2007 level computing technology so I can see what this gimmick thing called 'OS4' is about, at the same cost? Hmm, difficult choice..."

I'd say that a poll or an offer for a betatest program on those two sites alone *more* than covers the whole potential user customer base, since this is where the people are that will pay *any amount* of money for *anything at all* with the right trade mark slapped on it!


Ive seen blizzard PPC cards and A4000Ts go for 600 dollars on multiple occasions.
 

Offline runequester

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #178 on: October 29, 2010, 05:47:39 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;587579

How many times have you heard an Apple customer tout something he thinks is superior (that Apple constricts in features or how its used) and defends paying more than he would for it in a more open market (maybe because he likes Steve mining his pockets while telling him what he can do with his purchase).


Just as often as I hear windows users tout the same :)
 

Offline jorkany

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #179 on: October 29, 2010, 05:49:10 PM »
Quote from: Fransexy_;587857
If this is true then Microsoft Windows used also Amiga GUI elements.As windows 3 is almost identical to OS/2 (stolen work from OS/2 co-development with IBM?)
I guess you don't know that Microsoft and IBM worked in collaboration on OS/2. Eventually they split. Yes, the presentation layer of OS/2 and Windows 3.x is nearly identical (visually).