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Author Topic: Do you approve of PPC (in some form) as the future of Amiga?  (Read 29530 times)

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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Do you approve of PPC (in some form) as the future of Amiga?
« Reply #104 from previous page: October 14, 2010, 03:34:42 PM »
I don't really care for the move towards homogenization in the computer market, and that goes double for computers I like because of their hardware, so x86 is right out. But I'm not really fond of the PowerPC move, either. Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad processor, but why does everything 68k-based have to move to it? The 68000 architecture is a fundamental part of what the Amiga is, and taking that away makes it less of an Amiga.

Besides, the 68k is about the most assembler-friendly architecture you'll ever find. Don't want to give that up.
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Offline krashan

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Re: Do you approve of PPC (in some form) as the future of Amiga?
« Reply #105 on: October 14, 2010, 04:37:08 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;584680
Besides, the 68k is about the most assembler-friendly architecture you'll ever find. Don't want to give that up.
That's true, but then you are sentenced to stay below 100 MHz forever. Some may accept it, some not.
 

Offline matthey

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Re: Do you approve of PPC (in some form) as the future of Amiga?
« Reply #106 on: October 14, 2010, 05:11:47 PM »
Quote from: Krashan;584685
That's true, but then you are sentenced to stay below 100 MHz forever. Some may accept it, some not.


Wrong! A medium sized and priced fpga should allow an enhanced 68k processor to achieve around 150MHz. That is what the Natami team is expecting and that is what similar complexity and sized processors are running in fpga. That should compare nicely to a single core PPC at more than 2x the clock speed and possibly approaching 3x the clock speed.  FPGA's are getting cheaper faster than PPC processors are getting faster. The 68k is easier to program and much more tolerant of poorly optimized code like Hyperion is famous for. It's also much easier to debug than PPC or x86.

Disclosure: I love 68k, like PPC and hate x86. I only own classic Amigas but I am supportive of all Amiga users.
 

Offline trekiej

Re: Do you approve of PPC (in some form) as the future of Amiga?
« Reply #107 on: October 14, 2010, 05:24:10 PM »
What is the likely hood of an Amiga OS4.1 port to X86 bounty?
How many would contribute to it if Hyperion would allow it?
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Do you approve of PPC (in some form) as the future of Amiga?
« Reply #108 on: October 14, 2010, 05:41:55 PM »
Quote from: matthey;584688
Wrong! A medium sized and priced fpga should allow an enhanced 68k processor to achieve around 150MHz. That is what the Natami team is expecting and that is what similar complexity and sized processors are running in fpga.
Well now I'm really going to have to get one :)

It is a pity, though, that Motorola has given up on the line (microcontrollers and ColdFire excepted.) It'd be nice to be able to purchase a much faster 68k CPU, especially with modern execution features. It really is a beautiful architecture, with a lot of the nice features of RISC (a large array of general-purpose registers and sweet, sweet instruction-set orthogonality) but enough CISC features to keep things eminently usable for the assembly programmer. I wish I'd been using it back when I was first trying to understand assembly language; would've saved me a lot of time and trouble...
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Offline persia

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Re: Do you approve of PPC (in some form) as the future of Amiga?
« Reply #109 on: October 14, 2010, 05:41:57 PM »
I'm happy with calling PPC a virus...

Quote from: jorkany;584674
Why does it have to be one or the other? For example, viruses (the ones with the protein casings not the computer ones) aren't considered alive although in many respects they appear alive.
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Offline runequester

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Re: Do you approve of PPC (in some form) as the future of Amiga?
« Reply #110 on: October 14, 2010, 06:35:04 PM »
Quote from: Krashan;584685
That's true, but then you are sentenced to stay below 100 MHz forever. Some may accept it, some not.


It's definately concern but until we have software where that makes a difference, I'm not sure its a practical concern.
 

Offline Heiroglyph

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Re: Do you approve of PPC (in some form) as the future of Amiga?
« Reply #111 on: October 14, 2010, 06:39:48 PM »
Quote from: matthey;584688
Wrong! A medium sized and priced fpga should allow an enhanced 68k processor to achieve around 150MHz.


Wow, a whole 150Mhz?

I know MIPS aren't everything, but it's one indicator with numbers that were readily available on Wikipedia.

Assuming 060 performance, not 020/030 as most fpgas currently are:
68060@66 MHz = 88 MIPS
68060@75 MHz = 110 MIPS
68060@110 would be roughly 220 MIPS

Intel Pentium III @ 500 Mhz = 1,354 MIPS
ARM Cortex A8 @ 1.0 GHz = 2,000 MIPS
PS3 Cell BE @3.2 Ghz = 10,240 MIPS
XBox Xenon PPC @3.2 GHz = 19,200 MIPS
Intel Core 2 QX6700 @ 2.66 GHz = 49,161 MIPS
Intel Core i7 i980EE @ 3.2 GHz = 147,600 MIPS

x86 is clearly fastest per dollar now and will be for the foreseeable future.

Even the cheap embedded x86 chips are faster than the PIII 500MHz.

You can buy an off the shelf x86 that is 1677 TIMES FASTER than the fastest 060 available (66Mhz) for less than the cost of the 060 card.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to hobble Amiga with slow CPUs, they used the 68000 because it was the fastest for the money at the time.

Before Amiga went under they were already looking for alternative CPUs, so I'm not sure why there is such a strong attachment to a basic component that was near end of life already.
 

Offline Buzzfuzz

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Re: Do you approve of PPC (in some form) as the future of Amiga?
« Reply #112 on: October 14, 2010, 06:57:12 PM »
Quote from: redrumloa;584544

Anyhow, I guess you never heard of AROS?

I've heard of it an read up on it, but I don't think this is the answer.
 
Quote from: trekiej;584689
What is the likely hood of an Amiga OS4.1 port to X86 bounty?
How many would contribute to it if Hyperion would allow it?

If it would go open source, I think you would be surprised.
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Offline divined

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Re: Do you approve of PPC (in some form) as the future of Amiga?
« Reply #113 on: October 14, 2010, 07:03:59 PM »
Personally, I voted yes more because my Amiga ego gets the better of me. Logically, though I should have voted for the x86 way since it is way too dominant and cheap.

But then again, what truly makes an Amiga?? Is it the hardware or the OS? If the answer is the hardware then I go the ppc blind sighted. If it is the software then I have to concede that x86 is the way to go!!!
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Offline haywirepc

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Re: Do you approve of PPC (in some form) as the future of Amiga?
« Reply #114 on: October 14, 2010, 08:09:47 PM »
x86 is the cheapest for the money. What would be cool is if someone did a radical type of motherboard redisign and included multiple gpus, incredible sound card components and and multiple upgrade slots for adding MANY x86 processors, maybe additional coprocessing components and so on.
 
16 core chips will soon be very common... Imagine 4 phyical 16 core chips on one motherboard, or more, with great gpu, sound, ect, all on one slick mb that you can upgrade for many years.
 
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Offline orb85750Topic starter

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Re: Do you approve of PPC (in some form) as the future of Amiga?
« Reply #115 on: October 14, 2010, 08:21:10 PM »
Quote from: Heiroglyph;584709

I'm not sure why anyone would want to hobble Amiga with slow CPUs [...]


Seamless compatibility with existing software?  How useful will a lightening-fast system be without much software to run on it?
 

Offline Amiga_Nut

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Re: Do you approve of PPC (in some form) as the future of Amiga?
« Reply #116 on: October 14, 2010, 08:34:20 PM »
Quote from: orb85750;584726
Seamless compatibility with existing software?  How useful will a lightening-fast system be without much software to run on it?


Our games catalogue fits on 4 DVDs which run on WinUAE on P3 PCs, no streaming video format of our own we use Mac/PC, broken browser and TCP/IP stack. What's to keep? What's unique? Fix UAE for OS/4 too and get that loser coding WinUAE to grow a penis and say f&#k off to scum like Cloanto who invest nothing back to Amiga.......then we can talk properly.

Amiga is a mess right now, don't tolerate lame over priced unimaginative rubbish either like SAM or x1000 either. No brains in R&D=NO SALE :)
 

Offline billt

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Re: Do you approve of PPC (in some form) as the future of Amiga?
« Reply #117 on: October 14, 2010, 08:58:09 PM »
Quote from: trekiej;584689
What is the likely hood of an Amiga OS4.1 port to X86 bounty?
How many would contribute to it if Hyperion would allow it?


I'd happily contribute in the form of final purchase price.
Bill T
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Do you approve of PPC (in some form) as the future of Amiga?
« Reply #118 on: October 14, 2010, 09:00:03 PM »
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;584730
Our games catalogue fits on 4 DVDs which run on WinUAE on P3 PCs, no streaming video format of our own we use Mac/PC, broken browser and TCP/IP stack.
If you're just going to do Amiga stuff in emulation, what's the point of even having an Amiga? Just get a PC and stop fooling yourself.
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Offline persia

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Re: Do you approve of PPC (in some form) as the future of Amiga?
« Reply #119 on: October 14, 2010, 09:06:14 PM »
On the other hand hobbling a system to run 16 year old software is silly.  Run classic software in UAE and abandon the constraints that are killing the Amiga.  Either you develop new software to do new things or the whole point of faster more modern systems is moot.  

Dpaint IV will run faster on my Mac Pro than an X1000, but it still isn't going to replace photoshop as my daily image editor...

Take OS4, throw out the outdated concepts and bring it into 2011.  Move to X86 and be done with it.  The CPU has zero relevance on how "different" an operating system is.

Quote from: orb85750;584726
Seamless compatibility with existing software?  How useful will a lightening-fast system be without much software to run on it?
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