Excitement about NatAmi

[SamuraiCrow]

How much 680x0 software is there that won't be compatible with the 030?  In my area, the release of the A600/AOS 2.0, with it's massive incompatibility with the A500 was the last nail in the coffin for the Amiga.  We never even saw A1200's in these parts.

If the 040/060 were just optimizations, and did not add new opcodes, or if the new opcodes were rarely or never used, then anything past the 030 computability would just be an interesting sidenote.

I guess the other question is, are their opcodes in the 68000 that the 68060 cannot run?

You may need WHDLoad to get some games to work on the Natami.  What that program does is allows all of the games supported to run from a hard drive targetting an A1200 with an '030 accelerator and some Fast RAM.

The only code that the 68000 can run that the 68060 cannot is self-modifying code.  The N050 is not superscalar but gains its performance using another method so it should run 68000 code with greater compatibility than that of an '040 or '060.

It is also noteworthy that the '030 has all of the addressing modes and instructions of the '040 and '060 except the inline FPU opcodes.  There were actually opcodes and addressing modes left out of the '040 and '060 for performance reasons that are being added back into the N050.

[SamuraiCrow]

Cheers for the update.

Is there any chance that someone could do something with the NatAmi website and update that to show the current status?

It shouldn't be too long now...  ;-)

Also, the use of AfaOS may be a stale statement but since the AROS Kickstart Replacement Bounty Phase 2 requires some changes in the AROS kernal, it seems likely that we'll have to wait a bit for a free OS to run on the Natami.

[commodorejohn]

The natami is a hardware emulation of the amiga architecture? Does this mean it is not a "real" amiga?

Depends on where you stand on the great "what makes an Amiga an Amiga" argument. Is it the architecture? The actual, physical hardware? The brand? The OS? Or some kind of intangible spirit thing? It seems like everybody has a different answer.

Personally, I'm beholden to the elegant hardware and software architecture of the original OCS/ECS machines, which NatAmi seems to be aiming to replicate/beef up, so it's right up my alley But I suppose if you don't consider an FPGA implementation to be a "real" machine, this isn't going to do it for you.

[Louis Dias]

And before you continue, you do realise that unless you back up your claims with evidence, they will viewed with suspicion by anyone else, right?

You continue to troll.

I don't give a crap about the A500's memory transfer rate. I am asking yet again for you to back up your specific claims regarding the Natami.

Can you show that the blitter is capable of anything like the 100x increase you claimed earlier? (Hell even being able to show it works at all would be a start).

You failed algebra.  The potential is closer to 400x the speed of an A500 blitter but for other reasons that will only end up in the 100x-200x range.  100x is a conservative #.

Expecting proof for technical claims = broken thought process. Only Amiga makes it possible.

You failed reading comprehension as well.

On schedule and rocking eh?

Yep.  2 more weeks infact... /lame

So no one has the right to challenge your claims? Epic!

You could challenge them if you had facts but you don't even know the first thing about blitting and memory access speeds.  No one else is disputing the possibility that this is possible.  Stop and think: what do you know that they don't?  No really - stop thinking, you'll just run yourself in an endless loop looking for the answer.

It is not my job to disprove your claims, it is yours to back them up with evidence. Only a fundie or someone with a similar level of intellectual dishonesty would claim otherwise.

Then again I am talking to gamecube boy, so I shouldn't really expect anything better.

If you want to call me a liar, then come back with facts instead of challenges.  I gave you facts and you come back with more trollish remarks.
Rogue on AW.net said they OS4 could run on the Wii.  You, sir, lack much upstairs...

[Karlos]

The natami is a hardware emulation of the amiga architecture? Does this mean it is not a "real" amiga?

Emulation doesn't really describe it. Once you set up the logic, it's just hardware that is compatible.

[SamuraiCrow]

The natami is a hardware emulation of the amiga architecture? Does this mean it is not a "real" amiga?

It's only as real as you make it.  It's called a NatAmi which stands for Native Amiga.  There's no emulation involved, it's a hardware implementation of the Amiga processors and chipsets brought up-to-date.

It's NOT designed to run Debian Linux 68k or any other OS than what a real Amiga runs.  It's likely that the only way to get other non-Amiga OSs to run on it will require the addition of the optional 68060 processor daughterboard.  It is guaranteed to run AmigaOS and in time, AROS 68k.

[Darrin]

It shouldn't be too long now...  ;-)

Also, the use of AfaOS may be a stale statement but since the AROS Kickstart Replacement Bounty Phase 2 requires some changes in the AROS kernal, it seems likely that we'll have to wait a bit for a free OS to run on the Natami.

To be honest, if I can get my hands on a NatAmi then I'll be looking at loading something like Classic Workbench AGA or AmiKit.  

[Paulie85]

Thanks, I want an updated amiga and I don't know much about the FPGA boards but I was under the impression they were "programmed" to behave like other hardware. That's why I thought it was basically emulation, which made me think I might be better saving some money and getting an Imica from Clusteruk. Many have said this is where the future of the Amiga lies.

[commodorejohn]

Well, they are "programmed" to behave as other hardware, but it's in a direct, "arrange actual circuit elements to function as a particular piece of computer hardware" sense, whereas emuation proper is code running on one computer mimicking the CPU and hardware of another computer. Similar, but not quite the same thing.

[Belial6]

Depends on where you stand on the great "what makes an Amiga an Amiga" argument. Is it the architecture? The actual, physical hardware? The brand? The OS? Or some kind of intangible spirit thing? It seems like everybody has a different answer.

Personally, I'm beholden to the elegant hardware and software architecture of the original OCS/ECS machines, which NatAmi seems to be aiming to replicate/beef up, so it's right up my alley But I suppose if you don't consider an FPGA implementation to be a "real" machine, this isn't going to do it for you.

Personally, I just change the old saying "If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, then it's a duck." and change duck to Amiga.

For my personal use, I am most interested in being able to run classic software from the 1.3 era.  I would love to get into AROS x86, but like when I find an interesting show on TV, I go back to the beginning and watch all the episodes until I catch up to the new ones, I want to have my "Amiga" running all the old software so that I can catch up to the x86 port linearly through time.

Just as the new Dr. Who's are still Dr. Who, you get a lot more from the new episodes if you go back and watch the old ones to give context to what we have now.

[bloodline]

Thanks, I want an updated amiga and I don't know much about the FPGA boards but I was under the impression they were "programmed" to behave like other hardware. That's why I thought it was basically emulation, which made me think I might be better saving some money and getting an Imica from Clusteruk. Many have said this is where the future of the Amiga lies.

It is a bit harsh for people to shoot you down about this! An FPGA Amiga is still an emulation of the original hardware, even though it is not the step by step processor based emulation of something like UAE.

The FPGA I programmed using a language not unlike a normal computer pogramming language, the real difference is that the language is used by the FPGA software to build a logic map of the operation which is then "executed" by small programmable units in the hardware (often little more than logic units, but can have advanced features like adders and memory). The FPGA must be programmed every power on.

I wouldn't mind playing with an FPGA board (like mikej's Replay) to build my own CPU...

[Belial6]

It is a bit harsh for people to shoot you down about this! An FPGA Amiga is still an emulation of the original hardware, even though it is not the step by step processor based emulation of something like UAE.

The FPGA I programmed using a language not unlike a normal computer pogramming language, the real difference is that the language is used by the FPGA software to build a logic map of the operation which is then "executed" by small programmable units in the hardware (often little more than logic units, but can have advanced features like adders and memory). The FPGA must be programmed every power on.

I wouldn't mind playing with an FPGA board (like mikej's Replay) to build my own CPU...

I don't see anyone being harsh about whether FPGAs are hardware or software.  People have an unrealistic view on the level of difference between hardware and software.  The FPGAs just make the issue cloudy for people that don't see the shades of gray.

Using software to configure hardware is common to the point of being ubiquitous.  This is part of why I always thought the concern about 'emulation' was silly.  If you have a black box, that takes an input, and gives out a predictable output, does it matter if it is hardwired, hard coded, loaded with software on boot, hardware configured on boot, or any other combination?

My extreme example I see in my head is to ask, If you walked up to a window in a building with access to a keyboard, monitor and a floppy drive. You inserted a floppy disk that had the instructions to tell the 100% automated factory exactly what parts to pull and assemble into a stock Amiga 500.  It would automatically pull every chip, resister, and capacitor, and assemble them into an Amiga 500 case, and attach the resultant computer to the monitor and keyboard that you have access to.  Would that be a real hardware Amiga?  What if when you took out the disk, the same automated factory disassembled the Amiga?

How is that different to what happens inside the FPGA?

[kolla]

In my area

Noone here cares about what happened in your area 20 years ago.
Sheesh! :lol:

[jj]

You continue to troll.
 
 
You failed algebra. The potential is closer to 400x the speed of an A500 blitter but for other reasons that will only end up in the 100x-200x range. 100x is a conservative #.
 
 
You failed reading comprehension as well.
 
 
Yep. 2 more weeks infact... /lame
 
 
You could challenge them if you had facts but you don't even know the first thing about blitting and memory access speeds. No one else is disputing the possibility that this is possible. Stop and think: what do you know that they don't? No really - stop thinking, you'll just run yourself in an endless loop looking for the answer.
 
 
If you want to call me a liar, then come back with facts instead of challenges. I gave you facts and you come back with more trollish remarks.
Rogue on AW.net said they OS4 could run on the Wii. You, sir, lack much upstairs...

No you are correct no one knows anyhting about blitting apart from you.  You don't get it do you, without any proof or benchmarks to back this up all your claims are just that claims and theoritical.  
 
Yes OS4 might possibly run a Wii but god it would be an awful experience.  Im guessing, guessing mind, don't know, but did rouge say that just to shut you up on your GC/Wii os4 trolling ?

[jj]

Sorry double post

[Hattig]

The NatAmi folks have said that the blitter will be 100x faster.

I presume that they have proved this to themselves on the prototype board they did, so it's not just a theoretical and mathematical figure based upon memory bandwidth.

When the Natami comes out we will see how it performs. I think there's a bit too much trolling in this thread currently. It's not like the Natami people have been posting promises here to deserve the comments being made, which make me wonder why I bother with posting here and following stuff in the Amiga community still.