Excitement about NatAmi

[Louis Dias]

So what was this change where USB and ethernet was added on the board?

The LX board was made not to be sold but to prove that the MX board could be built.  In that time it was decided having ethernet and USB on the production board would be a big positive.  Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Ah, so who's writing the driver for this USB chip? And ethernet SANA2 driver? Or are these yet another items that will happily get ignored on the software side of the project?

I am not on the team, perhaps you should direct your questions to a team member on the project's forum instead of speculating none shall exist - if you are indeed truley curious.  The plan is to release a fully functional PC.  To think less is to spread FUD.

So let's be clear, just because the board is developed and produced doesn't mean it will be for sale until a working Amiga OS(and/or AROS 68k) installation is running on it.  It also helps to have hardware in hand when writing drivers, no?

[Iggy]

The LX board was made not to be sold but to prove that the MX board could be built.  In that time it was decided having ethernet and USB on the production board would be a big positive.  Why is this so hard to comprehend?


I am not on the team, perhaps you should direct your questions to a team member on the project's forum instead of speculating none shall exist - if you are indeed truley curious.  The plan is to release a fully functional PC.  To think less is to spread FUD.

So let's be clear, just because the board is developed and produced doesn't mean it will be for sale until a working Amiga OS(and/or AROS 68k) installation is running on it.  It also helps to have hardware in hand when writing drivers, no?

No one has suggested Thomas won't make good on the promises, but to claim that the targets haven't changed isn't fair.
I would have prefered the 68060 board that was announced be considered for the final production.The 68070/68050 development time has undoutedly slowed the introduction.

I also don't remember a statement being made about the board only being offered as a whole system.

[Piru]

It also helps to have hardware in hand when writing drivers, no?

It is far more helps to have them on PCI card. You can then begin writing the drivers before your HW is even ready.

With custom HW and chips on the board itself there are some challenges to verify that the chip is working properly. You need to write a lot of stuff to actually see that everything pans out. There are many ways you can mess things up when adding network and USB connectors to your board, as AmigaONE owners well know...

[billt]

I just had a thought. Will the Natami board be locked to be a Natami and nothing else, or like FPGA Arcade and CommodoreOne boards, will we be able to reconfigure the FPGA to other things that we come up with? If someone wanted to, could he port Minimig or anything else to it?

[kedawa]

Why would anyone want essential features like USB and ethernet relegated to a PCI card?
Not only would it create a nightmare scenario for compatibility, but it would severely limit the options for different form factors.

[Piru]

Why would anyone want essential features like USB and ethernet relegated to a PCI card?
Not only would it create a nightmare scenario for compatibility, but it would severely limit the options for different form factors.

Fair points there, but I still think modifying (and thus complicating) the design considerably might not be worth the effort.

[Boudicca]

I wish someone for once would make something they promised, sell at a price the promised, stop moving the goalposts and stop j&rkin off at the expense of the amiga community, just put up or shut up and ship out !! said my piece.

For some reason, immediately when someone has a good idea or the will to get something done, some fker rubs their hands together and thinks of ways to sc*ew everyone for being nice. Its a f*kin depressin....end

[tone007]

just put up or shut up and ship out !!

+1

[Belial6]

I wish someone for once would make something they promised, sell at a price the promised, stop moving the goalposts and stop j&rkin off at the expense of the amiga community, just put up or shut up and ship out !! said my piece.

I would like to point you to the MiniMig, WinUAE, MorphOS, AROS, AmigaOS4, the slew of products from Individual Computers (although they have had a few bombs), the iMica, etc., etc., etc..

The Amiga landscape was really ugly for a long time, but the last few years have been a consistent stream of exciting new products actually released, and it keeps getting better every day.

The biggest challenge I see for NatAmi at this point is finishing the project, and getting it out there before the MiniMig line surpasses it.  With the first generation of the MiniMig platform released, and in wide use, we are now weeks away from having the second generation of MiniMig released in the form of the Replay boards.  This will bring the MiniMig up to parity with any hardware that Commodore released.

While NatAmi aims to be better than what Commodore released, they do need to get it finished soon, as we don't know what level the Replay boards will achieve when they hit the wild, and no doubt there will eventually be someone that moves forward with a third generation of MiniMigs that will surpass the NatAmi target.

[Belial6]

Why would anyone want essential features like USB and ethernet relegated to a PCI card?
Not only would it create a nightmare scenario for compatibility, but it would severely limit the options for different form factors.

In what way would it create any issues for compatibility?  You pick the card you want to support, and you just don't support anything else.  I don't understand why the fact that you COULD support different cards would in any way make you feel like you MUST.

While it might limit options for different form factors, the reality is that there just are not that many different options.  The most obvious is the standard PC itx case.  Anything else would pretty much require a second run of modified boards anyway, and at that point, you could always build the PCI interface and network/USB directly on the board.  So, again, where is the problem with the initial run having the parts on PCI?

[kolla]

Ah, so who's writing the driver for this USB chip? And ethernet SANA2 driver?

No idea about USB (and I don't really care), but my guess when it comes to the NIC is Am7990 implemented on the FPGA (wasn't this discussed earlier as well?).

[kickstart]

Where can i buy natami?

[Heiroglyph]

I think Piru and myself are more accustomed to working in environments where there are deadlines and cost/benefit ratios.

Those devices on PCI vs. onboard wouldn't justify a redesign and massive delay in my working world.

A good shipping product is far better than perfect vaporware.  There is always a next version to add more features to if you handle the first one right.

Tinkering forever is exactly what seemed to have happened to the Boxer and gave the community nothing but dashed hopes, hence the analogy.

I've got nothing against Natami, I just hope they are professional enough to see the product through to completion rather than tinker for ten years with nothing to show for it. (closed source prototypes = nothing to show for it IMHO)

[Louis Dias]

No one has suggested Thomas won't make good on the promises, but to claim that the targets haven't changed isn't fair.
I would have prefered the 68060 board that was announced be considered for the final production.The 68070/68050 development time has undoutedly slowed the introduction.

I also don't remember a statement being made about the board only being offered as a whole system.

The '060 board hasn't change.  It's already built and was connected to the LX.
They are working on '050 and '070 boards.  Nothing is stopping the MX boards from shipping with '060 boards and infact that's what developers will have initially.

The goal has always been to ship with an functional operating system being it a licensed and patched 3.1 or AROS 68k.  That hasn't changed, don't buy into the FUD.

It's an Amiga-compatible machine running an Amiga OS...as has been demonstrated with the LX board.

[Franko]

As I am one of those who find the prospect of the Natami very interesting, and as you no doubt know I'm kinda new to the net, can anyone one tell me how long the Natami project has been running for (ie: when it was first announced) and in comparison how long the MiniMig (not the new AGA Version) was running for before it actually became available...

[Louis Dias]

I think Piru and myself are more accustomed to working in environments where there are deadlines and cost/benefit ratios.

Those devices on PCI vs. onboard wouldn't justify a redesign and massive delay in my working world.

A good shipping product is far better than perfect vaporware.  There is always a next version to add more features to if you handle the first one right.

Tinkering forever is exactly what seemed to have happened to the Boxer and gave the community nothing but dashed hopes, hence the analogy.

I've got nothing against Natami, I just hope they are professional enough to see the product through to completion rather than tinker for ten years with nothing to show for it. (closed source prototypes = nothing to show for it IMHO)

It's close source because it's going to be a commercial product.  I don't recall too many commercial companies just giving away all their technology.  I think we are lucky to see the development of the  C1+030 board to the LX+060 boards to the MX.

They've shown what they've shown to simply prove they are not vapor.  They have collected no money.  They owe no one anything.

When the product is done - judge it with your wallet.

However, if you or anyone else is so inclined, perhaps I should to join the team and start printing T-shirts...  $50 each ofcourse!