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Author Topic: Excitement about NatAmi  (Read 98348 times)

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Offline Darrin

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Re: Excitement about NatAmi
« Reply #74 on: October 12, 2010, 04:16:56 PM »
Quote from: JJ;584269
What really.  The guy out of an office and a gentleman and a Hamster :)


I think if you look carefully you'll see it is actually Richard Gere and a gerbil.  ;)
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Offline jj

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Re: Excitement about NatAmi
« Reply #75 on: October 12, 2010, 04:24:44 PM »
Was trrying not to  libel anyone on a forum
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Offline persia

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Re: Excitement about NatAmi
« Reply #76 on: October 12, 2010, 04:26:29 PM »
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

What we\'re witnessing is the sad, lonely crowing of that last, doomed cock.
 

Offline the_leander

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Re: Excitement about NatAmi
« Reply #77 on: October 12, 2010, 04:27:15 PM »
I guess being utterly skintipoos, I don't really have anything to loose as far as a libel action goes.

:D
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Offline wawrzon

Re: Excitement about NatAmi
« Reply #78 on: October 12, 2010, 05:03:47 PM »
@piru:
i just wonder, looks more like you take another opportunity to say something against natami team rather than really want to take sides with cammy.
after what gunnar has posted it doesnt look very serious, does it?
and if natami team is not up to mos standards, so why do you care so much? have you been insulted too??
 

Offline Akiko

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Re: Excitement about NatAmi
« Reply #79 on: October 12, 2010, 05:14:22 PM »
@wawrzon

You think thats bad, should read his contribution to OS4 related threads.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: Excitement about NatAmi
« Reply #80 on: October 12, 2010, 05:36:48 PM »
@akiko: ah who cares, lol. im a troll too in the final analysis, only thought its sad *always* to be so bitter no matter what excepr of mos. ;) sounds then as if one was really left all alone..
 

Offline Forcie

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Re: Excitement about NatAmi
« Reply #81 on: October 12, 2010, 05:49:03 PM »
Hello people, I am André from the Natami Team.
I will try to answer to the best of my knowledge :)

But  first, the issue with Cammy. Cammy, it saddens me to read what you  write. I was the person trying to encourage you to talk to us in that  IRC log, giving you various options for participating in the project and  discussing your involvement and your planned software, access to our  version management and roadmap system, etc. You made it pretty clear to  us that you simply did not want to communicate with us. Since this was  in a public IRC channel, there were several witnesses to this  discussion, so you cannot say we made it up in any way.

I agree  that team management was quite sloppy - most projects involving  restricted Subversion/CVS systems etc. would actually have removed your  access almost immediately after hearing something like the above. But we  gave you several months before deciding to remove your access privileges after  your continued silence. Like Gunnar says - motivated people are very  welcome to the team. You are of course welcome back too, but if you do  not talk to us, what is the point of it all? Please do understand that  this is nothing against you personally, but we have to set some kind of  limit for a minimum amount of communication.

Having cleared that  up, I should talk a little about the past and present state of the  project. The first Natami prototype was a 68030-based card running on  top of the C-One. This was shown to the public in 2008. Thomas Hirsch  spent a few years before he reached this point - I am pretty sure he  started even before Mr. Van Weeren started on his Minimig project. :)

In 2008 the Natami team talked about releasing a system based on an enhanchement of this prototype before the end of the year.
However,  after considerations, the team decided to remove the real bottlenecks  of the design - i.e., the outdated memory system. This resulted in a  major redesign of the Natami, with the goal of implementing a DDR2-based  pipelined burst memory system design. Thus the "missed release date" in  2008, that people like to bring up now and then.
Finishing this new  memory system design resulted in the production of the Natami LX  prototype card this year. After evaluating the LX board in various ways  and adapting the Amiga chipset to the new Natami design, a process which is  documented both on our forums and in the aforementioned Youtube video,  lessons were learned and ideas on how to optimise the design into a board  ready for public use have been implemented in the new Natami MX board  design. Thomas Hirsch is currently occupied with the integration of a  few new yet-to-be-announced components in the board.

Regarding  the softcore 68k CPU, the N68050, development is going very well. The  current softcore version has been "done" for quite a long time and the  CPU team are in late optimisation and polishing stages, and are  currently discussing which instructions it would be most beneficial to  use the last unused instruction space for. Considerations and planning  for the future N68050E and N68070 architectures are well underway.

Finally, a few small points :)
-  A lot of people talk about the project being stalled by "feature  creep". In fact, the only "feature creep" has been about adapting the  Amiga chipset to DDR2 RAM, which took about two years of hard work.
The  other side projects are just team members making themselves useful  while Thomas is working on the chipset implementation and board designs.  Discussing and working on various sub-projects related to the Natami  does not slow Thomas down - he works at his own pace.

- The  YouTube video posted does infact show AGA - several AGA screenmodes,  including HAM8, are displayed. But full AGA support was not implemented in the LX board at that time, so that is why there are no AGA games in  the video. Note that it is a "Stage 1" video - implying that there will  be later stages.

- The "128 MB chip RAM" limit someone mentioned was for the LX board. The MX design contains 256 MB chip RAM and 256 MB fast RAM.

- We do not use the hardware designs and FPGA  configurations of other projects, including but not limited to Minimig  AGA. :) A while ago, we discussed with the FPGAArcade dudes about  sharing the softcore CPU:s, but this was quite a long time ago and did  to my knowledge not happen.
The Minimig AGA and Minimig cores can  stand on their own, and so can we. It is very good for everyone that  those projects exist alongside Natami, because this means that there  will be higher-end as well as lower-end options for people who want to  run systems based on the classic Amiga chipset in the future.

Sorry for the great wall of text...
I  am happy to answer any of your questions if I am able to. But please  understand that the FUD and finger-pointing some people seem to be fond  of posting is not really encouraging. Skepticism is healthy, but try to  not be mean. :)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 08:02:12 PM by Forcie »
 

Offline the_leander

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Re: Excitement about NatAmi
« Reply #82 on: October 12, 2010, 05:49:50 PM »
Quote from: Akiko;584288
You think thats bad, should read his contribution to OS4 related threads.


You want to provide some citation for that, or are you just going for the adhom?

Quote from: wawrzon;584292
im a troll


Yes, yes you are.
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Offline Louis Dias

Re: Excitement about NatAmi
« Reply #83 on: October 12, 2010, 06:09:35 PM »
Quote from: Forcie;584299
Hello people, I am André from the Natami Team.
I will try to answer to the best of my knowledge :)

But  first, the issue with Cammy. Cammy, it saddens me to read what you  write. I was the person trying to encourage you to talk to us in that  IRC log, giving you various options for participating in the project and  discussing your involvement and your planned software, access to our  version management and roadmap system, etc. You made it pretty clear to  us that you simply did not want to communicate with us. Since this was  in a public IRC channel, there were several witnesses to this  discussion, so you cannot say we made it up in any way.

I agree  that team management was quite sloppy - most projects involving  restricted Subversion/CVS systems etc. would actually have removed your  access almost immediately after hearing something like the above. But we  gave you several months before deciding to remove your access after  your continued silence. As Gunnar says - motivated people are very  welcome to the team. You are of course welcome back too, but if you do  not talk to us, what is the point of it all? Please do understand that  this is nothing against you personally, but we have to set some kind of  limit for a minimum amount of communication.

Having cleared that  up, I should talk a little about the past and present state of the  project. The first Natami prototype was a 68030-based card running on  top of the C-One. This was shown to the public in 2008. Thomas Hirsch  spent a few years before he reached this point - I am pretty sure he  started even before Mr. Van Weeren started on his Minimig project. :)

In 2008 the Natami team talked about releasing a system based on an enhanchment of this prototype before the end of the year.
However,  after considerations, the team decided to remove the real bottlenecks  of the design - i.e., the outdated memory system. This resulted in a  major redesign of the Natami, with the goal of implementing a DDR2-based  pipelined burst memory system design. Thus the "missed release date" in  2008, that people like to bring up now and then.
Finishing this new  memory system design resulted in the production of the Natami LX  prototype card this year. After evaluating the LX board in various ways  and adapting the Amiga chipset to the new design, a process which is  documented both on our forums and in the aforementioned Youtube video,  lessons were learned and ideas how to optimise the design into a board  ready for public use have been implemented in the new Natami MX board  design. Thomas Hirsch is currently occupied with the integration of a  few new yet-to-be-announced components in the board.

Regarding  the softcore 68k CPU, the N68050, development is going very well. The  current softcore version has been "done" for quite a long time and the  CPU team are in late optimisation and polishing stages, and are  currently discussing which instructions it would be most beneficial to  use the last unused instruction space for. Considerations and planning  for the future N68050E and N68070 architectures are well underway.

Finally, a few small points :)
-  A lot of people talk about the project being stalled by "feature  creep". In fact, the only "feature creep" has been about adapting the  Amiga chipset to DDR2 RAM, which took about two years of hard work.
The  other side projects are just team members making themselves useful  while Thomas is working on the chipset implementation and board designs.  Discussing and working on various sub-projects related to the Natami  does not slow Thomas down - he works at his own pace.

- The  YouTube video posted does infact show AGA - several AGA screenmodes,  including HAM8, are displayed. But full AGA support was not implemented  on the LX board at that time - so that is why there are no AGA games in  the video. Note that it is a "Stage 1" video - implying that there will  be later stages.

- We do not use the hardware designs and FPGA  configurations of other projects, including but not limited to Minimig  AGA. :) A while ago, we discussed with the FPGAArcade dudes about  sharing the softcore CPU:s, but this was quite a long time ago and did  to my knowledge not happen.
The Minimig AGA and Minimig cores can  stand on their own, and so can we. It is very good for everyone that  those projects exist alongside Natami, because this means that there  will be higher-end as well as lower-end options for people who want to  run systems based on the classic Amiga chipset in the future.

Sorry for the great wall of text...
I  am happy to answer any of your questions if I am able to. But please  understand that the FUD and finger-pointing some people seem to be fond  of posting is not really encouraging. Skepticism is healthy, but try to  not be mean. :)


Excellent post.

People with agendas seem to jump on the bashing-bandwagon instantly.
Sad that some trolls can't even recognized the real-time jpeg loading, decompression and conversion to HAM8 in the video.  It only makes them look like they are bashing themselves in the end.

One positive about the NATAMI over the other projects is that is can load from a real floppy drive...  If I was to call anything vaporware, it would be CloneA.  Even after it has been proven that AmigaInc holds not patents or copyrights to the original Amiga hardware, nothing has been seen yet we have Minimig for some time and FPGAArcade around the corner.  It's been in development for much longer.  What's the delay?  Regardless, I'd like to see it released and see how it measures up to other solutions.

Speaking of delays, I'm sure you all can appreciate how MikeJ's project has been delayed by component suppliers and board manufacturers.

I guess basically I'm saying that a large STFU is in order.  I can sit here and critcize every platform Amiga(ish) or not.  What does that net me?  How has my life been improved?
 

Offline the_leander

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Re: Excitement about NatAmi
« Reply #84 on: October 12, 2010, 06:36:34 PM »
Quote from: lou_dias;584306

i guess basically i'm saying that a large stfu is in order.


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guest7146

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Re: Excitement about NatAmi
« Reply #85 on: October 12, 2010, 06:44:12 PM »
Quote from: Forcie;584299
-  A lot of people talk about the project being stalled by "feature  creep".

"feature creep" is an inevitable by-product of a perfectionist at work, and nothing to be ashamed of.

Congratulations on your work so far and I look forward to seeing (and buying?!) the end result! As a fellow Engineer, I watch this project with much interest.

AH.
 

Offline SIR-GERMAN

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Re: Excitement about NatAmi
« Reply #86 on: October 12, 2010, 07:13:21 PM »
Does anyone has news about the clone-A project ?
what is the deal with it ? , no news in a long time ? why ?
thanks
 

Offline jj

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Re: Excitement about NatAmi
« Reply #87 on: October 12, 2010, 07:32:12 PM »
@forcie very well written post.

@lou-dias  thought you would be busy porting os4 to the gamecube or wii.  I was asking why no aga games in video.  was a valid question.  so  why dont you stfu
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Offline nicholas

Re: Excitement about NatAmi
« Reply #88 on: October 12, 2010, 09:22:51 PM »
Quote from: JJ;584324

@lou-dias  thought you would be busy porting os4 to the gamecube or wii.


MS have ported Visual Basic to the Wii? ;)
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Forget the X-1000 or Sam Board
« Reply #89 from previous page: October 12, 2010, 09:37:28 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;584232

LTNS Nik, btw nice find with that slowed down U Smile. Hows things?


How do Alan! LTNS indeed, how's thee?
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini