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Offline rvo_nlTopic starter

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Re: Strange crashes..
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2010, 08:37:16 AM »
thanks for your replies. I was aware of that ianstedman website, but I recall something specific for the PSU in my elbox power tower. I even remember a thread on a site like this about it, but cant find it. will take the PSU out and have a look at the wiring.
Amiga 1200 (1d4) Kickstart 3.1 (40.68), Elbox Power/Winner tower (450w psu), BlizzardPPC 603e+ @240mhz & 060 @50mhz, 256MB, Bvision, IDE-fix Express, IndivisionAGA, 120GB IDE, cd, dvd, Cocolino, Micronik Keycase, PCMCIA Ethernet, Ratte monitor switcher, Prelude1200, triple boot WB3.1 / OS3.9 / OS4.1, Win95 / MacOS8.1
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Strange crashes..
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2010, 02:07:53 PM »
I had the same problems when I first got my BPPC (I'm sure I've answered this one before elsewhere) at first I thought it was the edge connector and so I de-soldered and then re-soldered a new one on (not an easy task)... :)

Anyway turned out I still had the same problems, the cure turned out to be a new PSU for my my tower, seemed when everything was connected up, DVD drives, HDs etc... I would get these problems... :(

It turned out to be the very old PSU for some reason wasn't supplying enough current on the -12V supply. Since installing the new PSU about 4 years ago I've never seen this problem occur again... :)
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Strange crashes..
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2010, 02:30:33 PM »
Quote from: Franko;599174
It turned out to be the very old PSU for some reason wasn't supplying enough current on the -12V supply. Since installing the new PSU about 4 years ago I've never seen this problem occur again... :)


Strange that this caused crashes. I once forgot to wire in the -12V rail entirely and the worst I got was half-wave rectified audio (not pleasant) and failure of the serial port to operate (again, signal rectification). As soon as I realised my mistake and connected it, all was well.

I don't know how your machine is wired up, but I used both the original rear port connector as well as the motherboard floppy power header as places to inject the 0, 5 and 12V rails. The -12V rail is only attached via the rear connector, but then again, current requirement is minimal. I did find that even after supplying the HD, floppy and CD directly from the PSU, the combined draw of the 1200 motherboard, BlizzardPPC and BVisionPPC was a bit more than I was comfortable feeding in through the original power connector, which is why I decided to inject additional power via the motherboard floppy power header.
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Strange crashes..
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2010, 02:33:42 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;583105
Sounds like it could be time to break out the alcohol to clean up all your connector contacts.


Won't that be a bit fiddly after a skinful? :drink: :drink:
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Offline Franko

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Re: Strange crashes..
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2010, 03:30:59 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;599178
Strange that this caused crashes. I once forgot to wire in the -12V rail entirely and the worst I got was half-wave rectified audio (not pleasant) and failure of the serial port to operate (again, signal rectification). As soon as I realised my mistake and connected it, all was well.

I don't know how your machine is wired up, but I used both the original rear port connector as well as the motherboard floppy power header as places to inject the 0, 5 and 12V rails. The -12V rail is only attached via the rear connector, but then again, current requirement is minimal. I did find that even after supplying the HD, floppy and CD directly from the PSU, the combined draw of the 1200 motherboard, BlizzardPPC and BVisionPPC was a bit more than I was comfortable feeding in through the original power connector, which is why I decided to inject additional power via the motherboard floppy power header.


The first power supply I used was the one from my old A1500 this had run fine for years with my plain old Blizzard060, the day I got the BlizzardPPC from ebay was the start of the problems. At first I put id own to being the edge connector as sometimes but not always, it seem to cause the crashes if you just moved the boar slightly with one finger.

So I spent the next two days de-soldering the old edge connecter and re-soldering on a much more sturdier one that I had on an old 4Meg memory expansion. As I say this turned out not to be the problem as the results where just the same.

So the next thing I tried was an old PC PSU that I nicked from one of my sisters PCs, this worked a lot better but still with the odd crash. That PSU if I recall correctly had a max of 500ma on the -12V supply. So then I bought a new PSU that had -12V @ 1000ma (again if i recall correctly, suffice to say the only difference was a higher rating on the -12V) and have never seen the problem since... :)

That's why I put it down to being something to do with the -12V, but I can't be 100% certain as I was just so happy the problem was solved I never checked it out any further... :)

All power connectors on my set up are taken directly from the PSU as I'm not keen on having lots of other connections coming from the ports on the MB. Everything has worked fine for many years now using this PSU in this way and the full specs of my main A1200 are:-

Blizzard060/PPC 60Mhz/240Mhz / 256Mb RAM / 2 x 500GB 3.5" HDs / 2 X DVD-CD ReWriters / FastATA MKIII / SubWay USB / Cocolino Wireless Mouse Adapter / Custom Built Amp & Fader (for Amiga & CD Audio)
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Strange crashes..
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2010, 03:44:57 PM »
Quote from: Franko;599188
That PSU if I recall correctly had a max of 500ma on the -12V supply. So then I bought a new PSU that had -12V @ 1000ma (again if i recall correctly, suffice to say the only difference was a higher rating on the -12V) and have never seen the problem since... :)

That's why I put it down to being something to do with the -12V, but I can't be 100% certain as I was just so happy the problem was solved I never checked it out any further... :)


Holy crap, 1A for -12VDC? What's the overall wattage of that thing? Even my CoolerMaster 850W PSU only puts out a maximum of 800mA for -12VDC.

I guess your newer PSU may have cleaner output or something. Certainly there's nothing in the A1200 that draws on the -12V aside from audio and serial etc. Not exactly what you'd call heavy-duty requirements.
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Offline Franko

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Re: Strange crashes..
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2010, 03:49:41 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;599194
Holy crap, 1A for -12VDC? What's the overall wattage of that thing? Even my CoolerMaster 850W PSU only puts out a maximum of 800mA for -12VDC.

I guess your newer PSU may have cleaner output or something. Certainly there's nothing in the A1200 that draws on the -12V aside from audio and serial etc. Not exactly what you'd call heavy-duty requirements.


It was just a 350W non branded PSU I bought from CPC/Farnell. I picked that one cos all the others only went up to 800mA at the time and that was the only one that gave out 1000mA... :roflmao:

As I say, it worked and I haven't seen those problems again so I never bothered to figure out the precise cause of the crashes... :)
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Strange crashes..
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2010, 03:59:32 PM »
Wow, I've never seen such low wattage PSUs with such high -12V ratings. Modern PC PSU's only have such high-rated +12V rails because you can step it down to whatever low-voltage/high-current requirements are needed directly on the device.

I thought 800mA was Overkill 9000 (TM) :lol: I wonder what uses -12V at anything like that current rating?
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Offline Franko

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Re: Strange crashes..
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2010, 04:04:35 PM »
That's true, I don't think I've ever seen any Amiga peripheral that required more that 100mA @12V... kinda makes me wonder why go up to 800 let alone 1000... :)
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: Strange crashes..
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2010, 05:40:15 PM »
temperature/cpuload related problem might be due to  broken balls under ppc. as long as not stressed too much it would stay cool while under load would warm up and some ball would loose contact. wasnt it the main issue of ppc boards? i dont know why do you expect it to be psu..
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Strange crashes..
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2010, 05:42:08 PM »
Quote from: Franko;599201
That's true, I don't think I've ever seen any Amiga peripheral that required more that 100mA @12V... kinda makes me wonder why go up to 800 let alone 1000... :)


Hard disks and 12V fans are capable of pulling a bit, but they use the +12V rail, of which there's usually plenty of amps available. But -12V ? *shrug*
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Offline golem

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Re: Strange crashes..
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2010, 06:11:23 PM »
I have been going through system freezes recently. Finally the PSU died (it was one from an A500). That's the third A500 or A1200 PSU I've had cause problems and then die. They really suck but I suppose they have lasted a long time. I invested in a Goliath and it's good so far - just noisy (
                                                             
A1200 desktop, Blizzard 1260, OS3.9BB2, Indivision Mk II, SCSI Jaz, Ethernet
A1200 desktop, Blizzard 1230, OS3.1, Ethernet
A500, OS1.3
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Strange crashes..
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2010, 06:51:12 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;599216
temperature/cpuload related problem might be due to  broken balls under ppc. as long as not stressed too much it would stay cool while under load would warm up and some ball would loose contact. wasnt it the main issue of ppc boards? i dont know why do you expect it to be psu..


The simple reason for it most likely being a PSU problem is I use very much the same set up and the answer to it indeed turned out to be the PSU... :)

I even took temperature readings, re-soldered just about every solder joint, replaced the edge connector all with no success. Replacing the PSU with one of 350W did the trick for whatever reason and I've never seen the problem again since... :)
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Strange crashes..
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2010, 07:24:49 PM »
@Franko

Did it not occur to you to check a different PSU before embarking on replacing the edge connector?
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Offline Franko

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Re: Strange crashes..
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2010, 07:52:35 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;599246
@Franko

Did it not occur to you to check a different PSU before embarking on replacing the edge connector?

Unfortunately no... :(

I thought that the original A1500 PSU would have had enough power, but the thing that made me think it was the edge connector was, I had on a number of occasions gently moved the board to see if it was a loose connection of some kind and a few times this seemed to result in a crash...

Turned out it was mere coincidence, but I sure learned just how tough it is to remove an edge connector from an A1200 trapdoor expansion... ;)
 

Offline rvo_nlTopic starter

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Re: Strange crashes..
« Reply #29 from previous page: December 16, 2010, 09:08:34 PM »
Quote from: Franko;599230
The simple reason for it most likely being a PSU problem is I use very much the same set up and the answer to it indeed turned out to be the PSU... :)

Thanks Franko, I'm so much more confident my PSU is getting old. Will get a replacement ASAP.

@wawrzon, thanks for your concern, but Im afraid I ruled out temperature-related issues. Its freezing over in Amsterdam and this problem occurs when booting from cold, starting OS3.9 and opening both CD-rom trays. And its reproducable. Sure, it could be something to do with my IDE-Fix or even a driver, but when I unplug both drives and demand a lot from just the PPC or Bvision I get crashes, too. So both cd-rom driver and ppc/warp3d driver? I dont think so..

In case you are right (we will know soon enough) I will apologise and will have a nice spare PSU :)

Still dont know how to hook up the PSU to the Elbox power switch though.. Must find out more about that.
Amiga 1200 (1d4) Kickstart 3.1 (40.68), Elbox Power/Winner tower (450w psu), BlizzardPPC 603e+ @240mhz & 060 @50mhz, 256MB, Bvision, IDE-fix Express, IndivisionAGA, 120GB IDE, cd, dvd, Cocolino, Micronik Keycase, PCMCIA Ethernet, Ratte monitor switcher, Prelude1200, triple boot WB3.1 / OS3.9 / OS4.1, Win95 / MacOS8.1