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Author Topic: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?  (Read 58340 times)

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Offline kickstart

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #224 from previous page: October 02, 2010, 09:28:27 PM »
@franko

Dont take it seriously but... registered in july 2010 and more than 600 post, you need holidays.
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Offline Franko

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #225 on: October 02, 2010, 10:36:17 PM »
Quote from: kickstart;582665
@franko

Dont take it seriously but... registered in july 2010 and more than 600 post, you need holidays.


Me take something seriously... never :)

Being new to the whole interweb-net-thingy, plus being retired & an insomniac, then I find this whole online stuff quite fascinating & interesting, It also helps pass the time of which I have plenty. :)

As for a holiday, the last one I had was in 82, when I went to the local pub only to find myself waking up on board a ferry somewhere in the Irish sea on my way to the Isle of Man. Got stuck there for a fortnight, but it was a good little holiday though... :)
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #226 on: October 02, 2010, 10:40:30 PM »
Quote from: kickstart;582665
@franko

Dont take it seriously but... registered in july 2010 and more than 600 post, you need holidays.


He didn't get the "activity award" for nothing, you know :lol:
int p; // A
 

Offline Fab

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #227 on: October 02, 2010, 11:41:05 PM »
Quote from: Methuselas;582528

It's called a typo, Moron. I've been around here a *LONG* time and most of my friends on here, well, we don't care about typos and certainly don't use that as a "slam" against someone, trying to infer intellectual superiority. Wow..... I'm so hurt......you got me. Gee, I don't know what to do.



Hey, "Moron", you actually do it too. You even used it against me a couple months ago... So you're just blatantly lying here.

Let's take this post of yours to refresh your memory:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=566337&postcount=158

(I guess i'm on his ignore list, but whatever)
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #228 on: October 03, 2010, 12:02:47 AM »
Now all of you, lay off Franko.

Where else am I going to learn such useful phrases? "Gobshite", ah man I love that one.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

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Offline Karlos

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #229 on: October 03, 2010, 12:19:52 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;582687
Now all of you, lay off Franko.

Where else am I going to learn such useful phrases? "Gobshite", ah man I love that one.


Never heard it before? Man, I thought it was fairly common vernacular. For a perfect example usage:
[youtube]9R89oERKCaU[/youtube]
int p; // A
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #230 on: October 03, 2010, 12:38:22 AM »
Oi, rats no fer, ah goat an infraction stuck oan ma bloody profile fur usin rat wurd, noo it's been bandied aboot lik naybuddys bizness... :(

no fair, ah'm tellin ma waw oan ye's... :cry:

(Subtitles Available On BBC Scotland...)
 

Offline Kesa

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #231 on: October 03, 2010, 12:55:05 AM »
Quote from: Franko;582691
Oi, rats no fer, ah goat an infraction stuck oan ma bloody profile fur usin rat wurd, noo it's been bandied aboot lik naybuddys bizness... :(

no fair, ah'm tellin ma waw oan ye's... :cry:


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Even my cat doesn\'t like me.
 

Offline Amiga_Nut

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #232 on: October 03, 2010, 01:03:14 AM »
Quote from: Piru;582365
Microsoft chose PowerPC because they could get full control of the chip (and for instance embed security features inside it... making it much harder to crack the console). That was not possible with intel or AMD. Original Xbox was cracked almost instantly and it meant major losses due to piracy.


You're forgetting something: You can't just hack something like this (computer HW business introducing a new platform) up from our garage anymore. It takes capital, lots of it. Back in the day it was possible to (literally!) start your business from a garage... I argue that this isn't possible anymore.

How would you go on and sell this idea to VCs? New game console? New desktop? What would bring them the profits for their investment?

And btw, game consoles are cheap because they're sold at a loss. The income comes from the game sales.


Microsoft went to IBM and asked for a CPU within a price range with a minimum performance that's all, which they decided they could provide thanks to CELL processor development work.

This was all confirmed from a contact who deals directly with Microsoft on a daily basis and specifically Xbox360 for licensing things like the visualizer and his 2 games released as full price titles I believe him wholeheartedly when he explains Microsoft went to IBM and IBM used half the research into CELL already subsidised by Sony/Toshiba to create Xenon. This is not based on Wikipedia bollox.

Xenon is 100% owned by IBM due to complaints and legal threats from Sony/Toshiba too.

So you have a situation exactly the same as in 1988 with Amiga A500 vs Sega Genesis/Megadrive. Both machines use the same CPU, and not some crap like the 65816 from WDC like in the pathetically slow SNES, and one costs 2.5x more than the other. The Megadrive was subsidised with £50 games too. The 360 motherboard may well be subsidised but it is still a cheap nasty device which is why it is $200 console not $450 like PS3. Even without subsidy the motherboard essentials are still going to come in at under $250...clearly a massive improvement on $1200 for a GPU devoid weird G5 based mobo used by x1000

The more things change the more they stay the same, my comment was merely if someone was serious about creating a true next gen OS4 platform then the only viable option is to use the 3.2Ghz Xenon CPU and to 'investigate' how Microsoft harness the power, the full price of which is still under $250 which is significantly cheaper than i7 solutions in x86-64 world. Creating the GLUE logic to make an ATI GPU and Xenon and RAM work is not costly or difficult and like I said the option is always there to hire IBM consultants to help as and when required.

It is VERY possible for a new spiritual successor of Amiga to exist, but it takes talent, insight, a rewrite of OS4 and substantially huge balls of solid iron to venture into such a business. Would not be expensive as Xenon is significantly cheaper than i7 due to the rate at which IBM has been producing them for the last 4 years either. Not the A1000 though, like I said more of the 1988 Sega Megadrive vs Amiga A500 kind of level of price/performance/compromise level. Had such design choices been made you could easily have got 1080p gaming rig performance for less than i7 PC gaming rig prices. (Apple are always overpriced and no games for it so forget those).

PC-AT/XT vs A500 vs Sega 16bit console is no different to xbox360 type tech on a desktop machine vs xbox360 vs PC x86-64. Where is the problem? None except for lack of vision. Never going to happen I agree, but the reason why a seriously powerful box to run OS4 on one of its cores at 3.2ghz doesn't exist isn't really a technical issue. Xenon is dirt cheap, ATI GPUs cost peanuts in bulk, basic engineering skill to stick it all together on a custom mobo are plentiful amongst talented graduates etc.

And as I stated before, x1000 is fine if all people want is the fastest OS4 box money can buy, not great value for money and OS4 has its problems too hence my 'pass' on a potential purchase.
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #233 on: October 03, 2010, 01:44:54 AM »
Which brings us to the point of why the X1000 costs so much even though its built from parts that were not specifically designed for it.

Number/Volume, say it anyway you'd like, but the Amiga market is SMALL.

Low volume=high prices

Simple, isn't it?

Just think, if there was larger potential market.

First, prices would lower.
Second, if the market was large enough, a custom processor (Like Sony's and Microsoft's) could be commissioned.
Third and most importantly, the stranglehold X86 has on personal computers might be loosened and we could provide a viable alternative system.

Then again, Nah that never happening!
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

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"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #234 on: October 03, 2010, 01:49:21 AM »
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;582695
The more things change the more they stay the same, my comment was merely if someone was serious about creating a true next gen OS4 platform then the only viable option is to use the 3.2Ghz Xenon CPU and to 'investigate' how Microsoft harness the power, the full price of which is still under $250 which is significantly cheaper than i7 solutions in x86-64 world. Creating the GLUE logic to make an ATI GPU and Xenon and RAM work is not costly or difficult and like I said the option is always there to hire IBM consultants to help as and when required.

It helps to be a multibillion corporation to do these things. Garage company such as a-eon will not be able to do it I'm afraid. It certainly won't be in the 6 figures, more like 8.

I still think you're dismissing the fact that if you need to somehow recoup your investment in the R&D. Unless if you see hundred of thousands of the units with nice profit margin you're not going to do it. How are you going to convince the VCs to invest in your business if you don't have some guaranteed way to generate profit?
 

Offline the_leander

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #235 on: October 03, 2010, 03:11:37 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;582696
Which brings us to the point of why the X1000 costs so much even though its built from parts that were not specifically designed for it.

Number/Volume, say it anyway you'd like, but the Amiga market is SMALL.

Low volume=high prices

Simple, isn't it?


It's worse than that - PPCs come with a terrific price premium over other non x86 processors.

Take a look at SBC and dev boards for PPC, MIPS, ARM or even Coldfire. To get to G4 class speeds typically costs you double or even triple what all those other arches cost to get you there...



Quote from: Iggy;582696

Third and most importantly, the stranglehold X86 has on personal computers might be loosened and we could provide a viable alternative system.

Then again, Nah that never happening!


The last chance for other cpu makers to really make significant inroads into the mainstream desktop market was in the early 90's. After that really the market was pretty much sewn up.
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #236 on: October 03, 2010, 04:07:00 AM »
Quote from: the_leander;582703
It's worse than that - PPCs come with a terrific price premium over other non x86 processors.

Take a look at SBC and dev boards for PPC, MIPS, ARM or even Coldfire. To get to G4 class speeds typically costs you double or even triple what all those other arches cost to get you there...

The last chance for other cpu makers to really make significant inroads into the mainstream desktop market was in the early 90's. After that really the market was pretty much sewn up.

Yes, and the scary thing is the G4 is a pretty slow processor. Not much memory bandwidth and a single core. There are AMD processors on the market that sell for less than $50 that would slap the G4 silly.

And no one making PPC processors is going to tout their products as competitive in the PC market. The fastest PPCs are made by IBM and they're aimed at markets above the PC market, while all other PPC manufacturers shoot for embedded apps below the PC range.

While IBM could make a PPC or Cell/Xenon related processor that was at least close to competitive with X86 processors they flatly are not interested.
Trust me, I talked to the head of the division focused on Cell development. They only want to market their IP to companies they select for applications they approve of (read that as they feel they now where they can make money, and it ain't in PCs). Maybe their right, after all IBM designed processors are now a part of all three major game consoles.

Still, if a large company with deep pockets approached them and could guarantee they would purchase X# (read millions) of processors, they would listen. In that regard, IBM has my respect. They know how to remain profitable.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline ElPolloDiabl

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #237 on: October 03, 2010, 05:23:36 AM »
I hope no one is saying the X1000 will make an impact on the market, don't delude yourself.
If you want to buy a nice PPC Amiga at a rather high price, it's your money and I won't be badgering you. Just point curious ex Amiga users to some cheaper alternatives. Otherwise they respond to the price "whaat!" and return to their PC without a second look.
In my opinion it will be pure luck if there are more PPC desktops available later on, even then they will expensive and fairly low powered. Amiga long term future is in Arm or x86. It could easily have an impact as a light lean OS if it got some momentum.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 05:39:05 AM by ElPolloDiabl »
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Offline lsmart

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #238 on: October 03, 2010, 08:01:39 AM »
Remind me again. Since many here on this bord bought their Amiga 1200 in the ESCOM days: What did the 1200 cost in 1995 when you would get a Pentium 100MHz with 16MB RAM and huge HD for 900$?
 

Offline Buzzfuzz

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #239 on: October 03, 2010, 08:02:30 AM »
I can show you why I would say no:
 
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