Is the A1200 really that cool of a computer???

[tone007]

I wis there was an accelerator/graphics card combo for the trapdoor is that even possible?)

BPPC and BVision.

[Khephren]

BPPC and BVision.

Yes forgot about that one. I meant a single card solution. Whether it is theoreticaly possible.

[koshman]

Yeah, a graphics card is the one big advantage of big box Amigas...

[Crom00]

a gfx card turbocard combo has got to be possible. With modern tech out nowdays it'd be interesting to see what is possible.

[Fransexy_]

a gfx card turbocard combo has got to be possible. With modern tech out nowdays it'd be interesting to see what is possible.

A modern GFX and sound chip takes up less space than a m68060.should be amazing a turbo card with a 68k (or a fpga emulating one) and a gpu and sound chip with 256 MB ram and a pass through for Aga modes and paula sound that fit in the trap door

[mechy]

Koshman,
   Its not a matter of being biased,is just the facts ma'am understand,i have owned/do own every amiga out there but the rare proto's and such,and i've used them all.Each machine has its good/bad points and quirks.

I agree everyone has thier own specific needs,but i was just pointing out that it makes sense to build off the best foundation.  With 1230 cards not going cheap anymore,at least $250usd+with ram most the time and 1260's upwards of $400~!,the 1200 can get pretty darn expensive too.Softhut selling the gvp 060 cards for $450 new for the A4000 makes it comparable imho.I've seen blizzardPPC cards go for as much as cyberstom ppc's.

Its also worth noting the only A1200 trapdoor graphics card solution the bvision,which requires a blizzard ppc,was never meant to be installed in desktop machines due to heat/power requirements(although these can be gotten around).

The 400o case is more generic looking. its definatly a case of function over form there.. lol

Mike

Mechy, you're SOOO unbiased
Most of what you say is true, I agree, but don't overdo it.
E.g. expanded A1200 (Blizz 1230, a little slower, but way more RAM) is still (significantly) cheaper thank a stock A4000 on second hand market.
Why should PCMCIA ethernet be slower than ethernet over Deneb?
Or why should the clockport speed matter when you use it to connect a soundcard??
Btw, see my sig? Now that I have a B1260 I'm thinking of completely ditching my A4000...


Anyway as others have said each model is cool in its own way, but A4000 is one of the more generic looking.

[ElPolloDiabl]

A modern GFX and sound chip takes up less space than a m68060.should be amazing a turbo card with a 68k (or a fpga emulating one) and a gpu and sound chip with 256 MB ram and a pass through for Aga modes and paula sound that fit in the trap door

If those Natami guys were serious they could have made one instead of playing fiddlywinks.

[koshman]

Sure, Mechy, as I said I mostly agree. It's difficult to compare relative prices anyway when we're speaking about used items.
As tone has said, whichever the model, Amigas are slow anyway compared to anything contemporary so it's mostly the question of what "feels" better. While I like my A4000 I can imagine being without a big box Amiga, but not without an A1200 (though I prefer having both, naturally ). To each his own.
Of course, A1200 was an entry level system and A4000 top of the line so there's no argument that out of the box the latter is a far more capable system.

[Amiga_Nut]

Ok,i will get flamed for this but:
The A4000 is full 32bit across the board, the 1200 is not.
The A4000/040 blows the 1200 away stock machine to stock machine and here is why.
Internally a CDRW or DVD-RW,2 hd's and 2 floppies fit the A4000- The A1200 gets 1 HD and 1 floppy (yea,i know,u can hack a laptop dvd-rw internally) but this is hacking.
The A4000 comes with a decent 150W psu. A1200 is a crappy 20~ watt psu.
the 1200 is actually wider than the 4000,but not as deep or tall, so you could call that a draw.
the A4000 is AGA also
You can set a monitor on top the 4000.
The A1200 is 020EC(no mmu/fpu) 14mhz with 2MBram,the A4000 is 040/25 with full mmu/fpu 16MB ram on the motherboard.
comparing stock to stock machine, the A4000 ide is faster(040 helps),the ide in the 4000 is at least buffered.
You can technically make a A4000 quite a bit faster than the 1200 with the csppc. 604/233 blows the 603/240 out of the water.(not withstanding guys hacking bliz boards,i'm talking stock parts here).
CSPPC UWscsi screams,it pushes 20+MB/s on the crappies drives.blizzard is scsi2(10MB/s if your lucky).
The A4000 stock has a proper expansion bus,zorro3, not crappy slow clock ports and 50 dongles hanging off stuff to make it decent.Even the A1200 FastATA and such is a cpu pig,while the csppc scsi cranks along at full speed with low cpu usage(even a CS MKIII).
If you want to compare mediator in both models,the 1200 loses again for speed, its transfer window to the board is smaller i.e. slower..
The A4000 is easy to install a pal/ntsc switch also,so you can permanently switch easily between pal/ntsc-just 2 wires with switch to the jumper.
The A4000 comes with a clock.
A 16MB A4000 with stock 040 card(even the crappy A3640) is a way way way faster machine out of the box than a stock A1200,and still a bit faster than the 030/50mhz boards in the 1200(yes theres 040/060 boards,but dont forget the prices!). and as far as cost, expanding a 1200 these days just to meet the A4000 usually costs as much or more.
The A1200 pcmcia is a winner tho,very handy for cheap ethernet or Pcmcia/cf,i will give it that hands down.
A zorro3 deneb though will out do the subway in a 1200 speed wise by quite a factor.if u want to do this, you could argue a $5.99 ehternet dongle is the way to go in the A4000 and will be faster than 1200 pcmcia ethernet.you also get USB2 and a flashrom to install a ton of stuff in.The deneb would only run on the 1200 with a zorro board/mediator addon in slow z2 mode(2-3MB/s?).
The 1200 also wins portability,but then again the bulky psu is not convienient and should be counted,the A4000 psu is at least self contained in the box.The A4000 comes with a real on/off switch on the machine
There a indivision for the 4000 also.
If u price a expanded 1200 and a used 4000,i bet you the price comes out close(and i dont mean if someone gave u a pile of stuff free).
Basically you can get a 1200 and add a small fortune in slower periphrials to it,and have dongles popping loose half the time,or a box stock a4000/040 you dont have to add 50 things to.
So in conclusion half you people either never owned anything but a 1200 or don't compare specs worth beans the information is out there plain as day.


Mike

A1200 was to be sold to people who wanted to mainly play games and maybe play with Dpaint or a music tracker

And the A4000 had the same identical barely adequate chipset called AGA

So in that sense the A4000 was overpriced too, AGA was just a catch up to VGA too it was in no way superior to mid 80s PCs like when A1000 came out Vs EGA + Adlib soundcard + 8086 XT. AGA still had 8bit sound, was still a 16bit chipset really, had a dodgy HD floppy drive controller where the data is slowed down to the speed of an 880k to read it in, hugely expensive with expansion of a PPC card, a proper 24bit card, a 16bit sound card etc etc.

A4000/030 was a real donkey of the range.

[Amiga_Nut]

A modern GFX and sound chip takes up less space than a m68060.should be amazing a turbo card with a 68k (or a fpga emulating one) and a gpu and sound chip with 256 MB ram and a pass through for Aga modes and paula sound that fit in the trap door

Nvidia's Netbook/Mobile targetted GPU allowing 720p PS3 type levels of graphic detail are amazing. One of those and a bog standard 16bit stereo output would work a treat as some cool update in a trap door expansion.

[ElPolloDiabl]

Could you do a PCMCIA grahpics card?

[jsixis]

I have a 1200 with an 040 card. Its fast and brilliance is a wicked paint program for it.
I don't play games, never have the time with my other hobbies.
I will admit it is sitting in storage because my 060 3000T with a picasso II is just nicer but once I get around to ether uograding to an 060 for the 1200 or building a platform so I can have better cooling on the 040 I won't use it much.

Personally I enjoyed my 1200 more when it had a DKB 030 and scsi system.

[runequester]

The main thing the 4000 will not do is fit on my desk

[Xanxi]

Speaking of the price of a cool A1200, here is calculation made on the one i'm using to browse this forum:

A1200 - 70 EUR
3.1 ROM - 20 EUR
IDE 10 GB HD - 5 EUR
Indivision AGA - 150 EUR
Subway - 70 EUR
Blizzard 1230IV - 150 EUR
64 MB SIMM - 10 EUR
PCMCIA NIC - 10 EUR
PCMCIA CF and SD reader - 10 EUR
2 GB SD and 128 MB CF - 10 EUR
USB mouse adapter - 20 EUR
USB mouse - 10 EUR

Bonus:
CD32 competitor pro - 20 EUR
2 external floppy drives DD and HD - 50 EUR

Not directly related:
ASUS lcd screen - 80 EUR
Logitech speakers - 20 EUR

Total:

This computer is worth 535 EUR (705 EUR with all bonus), of course using second-hand prices amibay-like and not ebay-like.

Still way cheaper than expanding any other amiga this far.
I spent so much more money in my A2000 for nothing.

[Khephren]

Speaking of the price of a cool A1200, here is calculation made on the one i'm using to browse this forum:

A1200 - 70 EUR
3.1 ROM - 20 EUR
IDE 10 GB HD - 5 EUR
Indivision AGA - 150 EUR
Subway - 70 EUR
Blizzard 1230IV - 150 EUR
64 MB SIMM - 10 EUR
PCMCIA NIC - 10 EUR
PCMCIA CF and SD reader - 10 EUR
2 GB SD and 128 MB CF - 10 EUR
USB mouse adapter - 20 EUR
USB mouse - 10 EUR

Bonus:
CD32 competitor pro - 20 EUR
2 external floppy drives DD and HD - 50 EUR

Not directly related:
ASUS lcd screen - 80 EUR
Logitech speakers - 20 EUR

Total:

This computer is worth 535 EUR (705 EUR with all bonus), of course using second-hand prices amibay-like and not ebay-like.

Still way cheaper than expanding any other amiga this far.
I spent so much more money in my A2000 for nothing.

And to a casual user, most of that is Unnecessary (although, once they've been sucked in...)

[T3000]

Can't put a VT/Flyer in to an stock A1200, so I don't believe it to be as cool as my A4000. So for what it is and what could be done with it. Yeah, sorta I guess. Compact, quiet and relatively portable as long as there's not a ton of peripherals hanging off of it.
My A1200 is in the living room wired to the TV. Haven't done much with it lately. Might downgrade to an '030 for game compatability.