Less than 12 Hours for a new Bounty to Toast all other bounty's

[desiv]

Funny, if you take the above complaints and replace "Video Toaster" with "Video Games" "VHS quality" for "90's quality graphics", you get things like:

"I don't know anyone who wants "Video Games" with 90's quality" graphics today."

And we know that's not true...

I know people who used the Video Toaster for fun, so it would make sense that it could still be fun to do..

Now, whether or not that market (people who want to use a VT for fun) is large enough to build up enough of a bounty is questionable...

But I don't see the harm in trying...

Of course, one of the great past times of this board seems to be telling people why they can't/shouldn't do something, so keep having fun there...  ;-)

desiv

[runequester]

I'm afriad that I'm going to have to agree with people saying that this is a waste of time... People love the Amiga for Retro Games and fun computing but know one I know that is into Video & editing is in to "Retro video Production" Unless your talking about 8mm B&W camera's and manual tape splicing...

Somebody is willing to plonk down 12.000 dollars to get something done, so I guess it doesn't matter if someone thinks its "a waste of time".

[persia]

Another wasted thread, the signal to noise ratio has really gotten bad on a.o lately....

[Plaz]

"I don't know anyone who wants "Video Games" with 90's quality" graphics today."

And we know that's not true...

People want an entertaining, pleasing and stimulating experience. If that's manifested in recreating a gaming experience, returning to an old hobby, or watching a movie from their past, great. But we don't have to rebuild all the old technology and hardware all over again to recapture those experiences. Host your old fav media on new hardware.

There was a time when a classic Amiga clone and toaster combo would have had a nice market. I think we're about 10 years past that time. Commodore squandered the chance to lead with things like the toaster/flyer. Now NewTek lives in the windows/mac world. X1000 with AOS4 might hope to join the party by supporting the latest card, but it will never lead again. (well, never say never)

Plaz

[Plaz]

Another wasted thread, the signal to noise ratio has really gotten bad on a.o lately....

Pretty much started around mid 1997

Plaz

[runequester]

People want an entertaining, pleasing and stimulating experience. If that's manifested in recreating a gaming experience, returning to an old hobby, or watching a movie from their past, great. But we don't have to rebuild all the old technology and hardware all over again to recapture those experiences. Host your old fav media on new hardware.

There was a time when a classic Amiga clone and toaster combo would have had a nice market. I think we're about 10 years past that time. Commodore squandered the chance to lead with things like the toaster/flyer. Now NewTek lives in the windows/mac world. X1000 with AOS4 might hope to join the party by supporting the latest card, but it will never lead again. (well, never say never)

Plaz

Someone wanted it bad enough to basically pay for it.

[Plaz]

Someone wanted it bad enough to basically pay for it.

Guess so. Actually I hope they get it. I'm questioning the motivation, but not rooting against it.

Plaz

[KimmoK]

Haha, two more weeks not this time. While you were not 100% correct you did get most of it right so the backer of the bounty will add $100 on your behalf. Yes, that's right if this bounty fails you will get $200 back December 2012.

WOW! thanks!
( I was going to suggest also the FPGA route instead of xcore, but I thought it would be too far fetched. ;-) )

btw.
Any clue about: Is the SAM's FPGA + expansion connector enough for VT HW re-implementation?

btw2. Is xcore allowed to be used instead of a FPGA? (in my imagination VT HW would be far more easy to do with xcore than with FPGA)

[salax54]

I still don't get it. Maybe i'm not reading properly.. But suppose you get some FPGA reincarnation of a Toaster unit, and suppose you get the software to work with it. Would you also manage all the in/out stuff that goes with it? Will you still have the same level of connectivity to external video sources-monitors etc? Will a TBC finally become unnecessary? Finally, will we ever have the same joy of using a darn genlock with our "new" platforms like we did with our cheap Amigas back in the day?
I think if someone could build an interface that would allow you to utilize youre existing genlocks on NG and AROS machines, it'd be a lot more fun!

[Piru]

btw2. Is xcore allowed to be used instead of a FPGA? (in my imagination VT HW would be far more easy to do with xcore than with FPGA)

xcore is not suitable for this project.

[KimmoK]

Is the FAQ / more details available yet?

@Piru

Care to elaborate why not?
Because of the bandwidth limits of XS1 xcore chips?

XS2 should be out "soon" I think (if not already), with PCIe bandwidth.


other than that...
I think if FPGA use is mandatory, it limits things to some VHDL specialists.
- original VT creators could most likely redo it (for classics, but the challenge to adapt it to NG HW without Open VT port is big)
- minimig creators might be able to add VT functionality to minimig "code" for a very large FPGA (then the original VT SW might run without porting, but it would not give that much for NG HW users)
- Natami guys could implement VT as a standard Natami AA+ chipset feature. ;-P

[Piru]

@Piru

Care to elaborate why not?

Bandwidth, or rather lack of it.
Memory, or rather lack of it.

[Boot_WB]

@DiscreetFX

I applaud your dedication in 1) getting the VT sources opened and 2) continuing to promote their improvement. But I've got to say I agree with pretty much everyone here when I conclude: Why a re-implementation in FPGA? This seems utterly pointless.

The (already improved by the experts over the last 15 years) hardware is already there (VT4/5 etc) in PCI form-factor. Why re-invent the wheel?

Your 'un-named client' would be able to buy around 120 Video Toaster cards off Ebay with $12,000, so hardware lifetime is not really this issue here is it?

So perhaps you just need to manage your clients expectations somewhat.  

I guess the 'no interest' refers to Newtek's lack of interest in porting the modern suite rather than the users lack of interest in using it.
However, them may be willing to open up the driver specification, and allow drivers to be written for AmigaOS/MorphOS for their hardware. Then, via a common API, the hardware would be useable by any VE suite on the Amiga. This would be half the battle - if we are to have a modern updated VE suite, then it does not want to be tied to a hardware dongle, or hard-coded to only work with a particular capture/output device.

Additionally, in this day and age there is no real need for a realtime mixer output or genlock - far easier to accomplish with software: capture the video, save to digital file format, edit/mask at leisure, and play as many times as you want.

Again, I admire your enthusiasm, and respect the right to privacy of your 'anonymous client' (again), but I think that you have a responsibility to manage your clients expectations realistically. If (s)he truly wants something useful, then start a bounty to get an updated VE suite (either Newtek's or another) ported to PPC AmigaOS/MorphOS or AROS, and petition Newtek (or some other manufacturer) to give you sufficient details to write a hardware driver.

I suspect this approach would be easier, quicker, cheaper, more useful, with better results, more easily maintained (lets think about the future here too) and with a more realistic prospect of someone taking up the challenge.

Just my 40% of a shillings-worth, and meant in a constructive way. :-)

[warpdesign]

I suggest a bounty for Discreet to stop spamming the Amiga world with unrealistic random false promises...

Before there was Aladdin (which we still haven't seen a single OS4/MOS/AROS (native) screenshot after more than a year). Then some more unrealistic ASM/FPGA stuff...

Come on...

[KimmoK]

@Boot_WB

Valid points.
Except, I think there is also the need for realtime capabilities, even though the non-linear side has more uses and users.


Other than that... For video editing.
1) we need video editor SW for modern AmigaOS flavours
(any is better than none at all, blender exist, but I think it's not too user friendly etc.)
2) we need HW to get video in /out or drivers for existing HW
(old VT HW + improvements is only one option, easier possibilities might exist)
3) Port of the latest VT is better than port of the old one
....

[Pyromania]

@Everyone

Some great suggestions, we will discuss with the generous donator. He is getting up there in years and is not a computer techie. He loves Amiga & the Video Toaster Flyer after all these years and that is a good thing. Nothing wrong with this bounty changing or evolving as long as the ultimate goal is met. Video editing suite for Amiga OS 4.x, MorphOS & AROS.

@warpdesign

It would be nice if Aladdin 4D was done, over 3000 hours of development have already gone into it. It's not a scam just hard work since it had been neglected for 10 years before it become our problem. In the future before we take over such a large project we will ask to look at major portions of the source-code instead of just a few small examples.