Copyright continued...

[Franko]

In Australia there is a simple consumer law that states “a new product must be fit for the purpose for which it is sold”;  A broom must sweep, a car must drive, etc.
What if you buy a CAD software product for Win XP that no longer works on Windows 7.  Are you bound to stay on XP. Or do you have the right to expect the licensed product maintain its usefulness beyond the limitations of OS releases.
Legal precedents often come back to haunt those that use them.

“a new product must be fit for the purpose for which it is sold”, that law also applies here in the UK. I have used it many times in the past against products that were clearly not so.

If you return something to a store and quote this law most times the store will give you a refund or exchange the product. Those that don't and try to fob you off with it's not their policy, simply ask to speak to the manager or whoever is in charge take down their name and in the UK a quick call to Trading Standards soon changes their mind.

In many cases you are also given a discount or some monetary compensation as they know they were in the wrong and don't wish to lose a customer or have Trading Standards on their backs.

[AmigaEd]

So as a purchasher of Autodesk's software package, since I don't own the software and have only the use of it, do I own the CD-ROM, DVD, floppy disks, manuals, dongles, or packaging that any of the above came in?

If so, shouldn't I have the right to sell those items as I see fit.

Regards,
AmigaEd

[gertsy]

So as a purchasher of Autodesk's software package, since I don't own the software and have only the use of it, do I own the CD-ROM, DVD, floppy disks, manuals, dongles, or packaging that any of the above came in?

If so, shouldn't I have the right to sell those items as I see fit.

Regards,
AmigaEd

Yes, as long as the purchaser does not use the software.

[pwermonger]

I hate it when I got to a restaurant and pay for a meal, but when I try to leave with the plates, knifes and forks then they call the police. They didn't tell me before I paid that I wasn't allowed to take them.

This is not nearly a correct analogy since purchasing a meal, you dont purchase the plates and silverware. More correct would be, you buy a meal at a restaurant (analogous to purchase of software) and you turn and sell, or give away that meal to the person next to you who eats it. Restaurant (software company) still got paid therefore lost nothing, still gained the price set for the product and you did not sell anything that wasnt yours to do with as you pleased.
 
Software companies are desperate to change your software purchase from that to a purchase of a "license" they then deem in a closed box agreement (you dont get to see the 'agreement' until you open the box and opening the box indicates your agreemet to the license you couldnt see until you opened it (oh, by the way, once you open software you pretty much cant return it either so you're likely stuck with whatever slip of paper they placed in the box limiting your use hip hip hooooray for more profit!)) that you have no right to sell or transfer. This way, like record companies in the past tried to do, they can try to destroy the used market and get all the money for themselves.

[Franko]

This is not nearly a correct analogy since purchasing a meal, you dont purchase the plates and silverware. More correct would be, you buy a meal at a restaurant (analogous to purchase of software) and you turn and sell, or give away that meal to the person next to you who eats it. Restaurant (software company) still got paid therefore lost nothing, still gained the price set for the product and you did not sell anything that wasnt yours to do with as you pleased.

While I get the point of your analogy, the one flaw with it would be the restaurant could stop you from doing so on the grounds that giving your meal to another potential paying customer is harming his sales and business and he would be legally within his rights to stop you and even remove you from his premisses.

[the_leander]

While I get the point of your analogy, the one flaw with it would be the restaurant could stop you from doing so on the grounds that giving your meal to another potential paying customer is harming his sales and business and he would be legally within his rights to stop you and even remove you from his premisses.

Actually I believe games companies like Nintendo, Sega and more recently Sony have used pretty much the above justification for trying to stamp out the second hand markets in Japan.

[Piru]

Here's something interesting:
HDCP 'master key' supposedly released, unlocks HDTV copy protection permanently

Not that it's actually needed for anything, the bluray protection has been broken in other ways already.

But it's clearly another nail in the DRM's coffin.

[gertsy]

Here's something interesting:
HDCP 'master key' supposedly released, unlocks HDTV copy protection permanently

Not that it's actually needed for anything, the bluray protection has been broken in other ways already.

But it's clearly another nail in the DRM's coffin.

"Master Key" sounds an urban myth to me..

[Piru]

"Master Key" sounds an urban myth to me..

In what way?

Niels Ferguson predicted this in 2001 already. It just took longer than a year.

[psxphill]

Strawman.
 
Back on topic.

Just because you don't agree, doesn't make it a straw man.
 
The shrink wrapped license says that you can't resell it, you know that the shrink wrapped license on every piece of software says it.
 
If you didn't already know, then I'm telling you now. Every piece of commercial software, says you cannot re-sell it.
 
Now you have no excuse.
 
The major reason why shrink wrapped licenses were not considered valid is because people claimed ignorance. Even going so far as to get a dog to open the package.
 
If you don't want to buy the software that says you can't re-sell it then don't buy it.
 
If you want to take the plates away with you, go to somewhere they give you paper plates.

[psxphill]

“a new product must be fit for the purpose for which it is sold”, that law also applies here in the UK. I have used it many times in the past against products that were clearly not so.

If software says it works on windows xp, then you can get a refund if it doesn't. If you buy it because you want to run it on windows 7, or upgrade from XP to 7 later then you don't have a legal standing. It was fit for the purpose that the seller sold it, whether it was fit for the purpose that the buyer bought it.
 
However most shops will allow you to return things, just because they don't want bad publicity. Especially if they are selling stuff that doesn't work & you go in when they are really busy and talk very loudly.
 
Eventually everything will be delivered digitally, you can't even make sure you get to keep that.
 
You have a choice of what you buy, but everything has a cost & someone has to pay.

[psxphill]

This is not nearly a correct analogy since purchasing a meal, you dont purchase the plates and silverware. More correct would be, you buy a meal at a restaurant (analogous to purchase of software)

You didn't purchase the software, you just thought you did. That isn't anyones fault but your own. It said it inside the box, like all the other software.
 
I thought I bought the plates because they put them in front of me and I paid them money. If I were in a plate shop and that happened then I would own them, in a restaraunt I don't.
 
I only know that because of education. Knowing that shrink wrapped licenses say you can't re-sell the software is another piece of education.
 
Anyone that has read my post can no longer claim that they don't agree with shrink wrapped licenses, because I've told you all about them. Education is great.

[ElPolloDiabl]

Here's something interesting:
HDCP 'master key' supposedly released, unlocks HDTV copy protection permanently

Not that it's actually needed for anything, the bluray protection has been broken in other ways already.

But it's clearly another nail in the DRM's coffin.

Good news for people who copy and sell pirated movies.
I like having a legal disc though, after I'm sick of it I can donate it to the library. With a pirated disc it has to go in the trash.

[A6000]

While I get the point of your analogy, the one flaw with it would be the restaurant could stop you from doing so on the grounds that giving your meal to another potential paying customer is harming his sales and business and he would be legally within his rights to stop you and even remove you from his premisses.

No flaw, when you take guests into a restaurant you are giving your meals to other people, if a starving person entered the restaurant and begged for food, it would take a real bastard to refuse them, and it's not something that would happen every day so the owner will not be bankrupted by this action.

Licensing software is a scam.

[Franko]

If software says it works on windows xp, then you can get a refund if it doesn't. If you buy it because you want to run it on windows 7, or upgrade from XP to 7 later then you don't have a legal standing. It was fit for the purpose that the seller sold it, whether it was fit for the purpose that the buyer bought it.
 
However most shops will allow you to return things, just because they don't want bad publicity. Especially if they are selling stuff that doesn't work & you go in when they are really busy and talk very loudly.
 
Eventually everything will be delivered digitally, you can't even make sure you get to keep that.
 
You have a choice of what you buy, but everything has a cost & someone has to pay.

@Piru
I've seen you use the term Strawman quite often, could you please explain what it means, it's not something we use this side of the pond... ta

@psxphill
Still can't see the points your trying to make, someone would have to be very dumb indeed if they bought software that clearly states it's for XP only and then tried to return it because the went up to windows 7 or whatever.

Also what this 'shrink wrapped license' you keep mentioning, I can honestly say I've never came across such a thing, care to enlighten me...

How on earth are they going to deliver my cornflakes digitally, or are Star Trek replicators available now, and if so where do I buy one or do I need a licence.

[Piru]

@Piru
I've seen you use the term Strawman quite often, could you please explain what it means, it's not something we use this side of the pond... ta

Hmm I do? I don't recall. However, here goes: Fallacy Files: Straw man