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Author Topic: Pirated Amiga software on ebay  (Read 9998 times)

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Offline Lando

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Re: Pirated Amiga software on ebay
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2010, 04:24:28 PM »
There is no point reporting it.  eBay is full of pirated goods.  They don't care.  95 to 99% of brand-name goods on eBay are fake.  For example I've reported counterfeit Prada and Gucci items costing $1000+ and eBay have done nothing so I doubt they would act over a $30 CD of old games for an ancient computer.  Every amiga.org member could spend 24 hours a day reporting pirated Amiga stuff and it would still be full of them.  Until eBay is sued for allowing criminals to use their site nothing will change :-(
 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: Pirated Amiga software on ebay
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2010, 04:37:26 PM »
Quote from: Crom00;578045
FYI the Flashback devies were made by the company now known as ATARI (who purchased the rights to the name and the ip for the games from Hasbro well before they made the flashback).

Hasbro did re-releases during their brief tenure as owner of the IP but got rid of the brand rather quickly. I spoke to one insider who revealed the process of getting the Flashbacks out was a big legal hassle and in the end the project wasn't a money maker for them when you considered the NRE costs. Jakks Pacific was able make the number work on their TV games becuase all the tooling and majority of dev work is done in China (as cheap as humanly possible) so NRE costs were much cheper than using USA counterparts. Also Jakks legendary ability to fill a mass market supply chain and secured retailer space certainly helped.


Thank you.  I was minutely aware of some sordid circumstances of this three-way adventure, but not to this detail.  I own the original Flashback -- I actually had two, but gave one away after opening and trying out the abomination, keeping one unopened for future value.  I never bought the Flashback 2, and I lament buying the joystick.  In fact, Jakks Pacific has tromped on my good memories of the Atari 2600 with its horrible hardware renditions: the damned things do not appear to have a noise generator, which has ruined "Missile Command."  However, if you do not have the original hardware, it is okay for nostalgic and educational purposes.

None the less, there was and obviously remains a market from which the producers can make a profit.  I am perfectly fine with a $20 joystick with five or ten games in it, but I absolutely refuse to pay $20 for a DS cartridge with a single 25 year-old game in it.  I have a bunch of Atari games on CD which were the 3D remakes -- quite good ones, actually -- and the companion emulation of the originals for $10 ea.

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The best course of action is to release these to the public domain for sure. At this point it's more about historical preservation and educational purposes. Histroy is written by the victors but if you speak to the hardcore in the industry and they are well aware of the contributions the Amiga made to the industry. It's up to us "old timers" to school the "young bloods" on this history.


I partially agree with this.  The horrendous extension of the "Mickey Mouse" copyright laws (what are they, 100 years now?) has been and will be a great detriment to us all.   That having been said, I do not see any issue with a company making money on a product which has a market, irrespective of whether the original market is dead, such as the original 2600 consoles, or just aged and looking for regeneration, in emulation, for instance.  At the same time, the source code for a number of Atari 2600 and 7800 titles have been released for public consumption.

As a corollary, I could support a requirement on companies exercising their rights after having let them languish for a period of time to produce a modern replacement for the original works.  Licensing to Jakks Pacific for production, for instance, would satisfy this requirement.

I maintain preservation and education by way of owning a couple of the original consoles and scads of the original games.  I keep them all working, and I also have abused the pirating world by "profiting" from the hard work of others to dump the ROMs so as to maintain a working digital copy should anything happen to the hardware.  That way I can make a new cartridge if necessary.  I also support making multi-carts using ROMs which you rightfully own.  (Rightfully owning spawns a conversation itself, but suffice to say that, in my circumstances, I mean that I have possession of the physical cartridges and matching game consoles.)

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What I do see are companies publishing games on a case by case basis. Pinball Dreams, Super Stardust, etc. If you port the game to a different platform you avoid the whole Amiga rom issue. Emulation seems to leave a bad taste in the mouth of IP holders as they are not administering the sale of the games. At least with WII Iphone and XBlive you have a copy protection system in place.

A more constructive course of action could be to campaining XBlive, Apple or other publishers to re-relase these gems on modern hardware.


Let the big boys deal with each other?  Sounds interesting.
 

Offline orb85750

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Re: Pirated Amiga software on ebay
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2010, 05:37:36 PM »
I just got off the phone with eBay and they told me that the auction would be removed.  Let's see if it happens and if it resurfaces again.
 

Offline Crom00

Re: Pirated Amiga software on ebay
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2010, 05:39:19 PM »
"Let the big boys deal with each other? Sounds interesting."

Yes if say xblive wants to for example increase the casual gamer market and address the retro community they have the resources in place to handle licensing and development costs. This is the most appealing as it gets the IP holders a modern revnue stream. Once you start talking about hardware, roms and all that lawyers get headaches. When you pitch an Iphone game you see the cash register sound go off in their head.
 

Offline Crom00

Re: Pirated Amiga software on ebay
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2010, 05:53:36 PM »
Quote from: smerf;578050
Hi,

Right you are Franko,

Just because the Amiga isn't being made today, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. They should sell all their Amiga game rights to someone like Cloanto, or AmigaKit, so that these people could resell them to us Amiga Collectors, and hopefully they would make them copy protection free and downloadable from some site so that we could buy them on line. Hey if they done that they probably could still make a couple of bucks profit, say if they sold the image at say $10 offering AmigaKit $8 and taking $2 for every sale

smerf


Smerf the problem here is that... again I keep going back to lawyers... Their very nature would prevent this from hapening. It's almost pennywise pound foolish. I know old toy and game guys that would walk up to an IP holder at a trade show, strike a deal for an entire game library on a handshake and release the product. Today so many hands are in the till it just makes it hard to excute such a deal.

At least back in the day old timers would say look, we have this "thing" lets just relases it and see what happens. Viola! it's a success! then they hire the fanboy to see what all the kids are into as a legal aid or gofer, once the gofer displays he can get coffee and answer phones they give him a job. Once that fanboy is in a position of power they then think they know everything and you have a situation similar to the music industry where content is released through a crazy closed system of "experts" who know what will sell and won't and very few folks take chance.

It's funny the Jakks pacific tv game was acquired from ToyMax and that was a brainchild of a man who very much thought "hey let's just try this... !" matter of fact some of the most innovative toys and games come from this genesis.
 

Offline orb85750

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Re: Pirated Amiga software on ebay
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2010, 06:19:17 PM »
Quote from: orb85750;578069
I just got off the phone with eBay and they told me that the auction would be removed.  Let's see if it happens and if it resurfaces again.

And if it's not removed, Plan B is to buy and then dispute the PayPal transaction due to receipt of copies, not originals, of copyrighted software -- along with very negative feedback to the seller, of course.  I would do it, but the seller ships only to Australia and I'm in the US.

EDIT: Other identical auction by seller ship to Europe as well as Australia.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 07:32:49 PM by orb85750 »
 

Offline Tripitaka

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Re: Pirated Amiga software on ebay
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2010, 06:33:25 PM »
"Have you already started looking for stocking fillers?" says the auction just after my kids have gone back to school following the summer break. Never mind the piracy, I make a point of never buying off assholes who advertise Christmass before october.
Falling into a dark and red rage.
 

Offline recidivist

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Re: Pirated Amiga software on ebay
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2010, 06:58:04 PM »
If the copyrights owners can't be bothered at this point ,I say people who get all exercised about "pirating" of old,long abandoned software need to "get a life"!

Some no doubt are incensed by the "loss in value" of their"extemely rare,original NIB" software collections;tough!

All that high-priced software sitting in unopened boxes ,and who gets to enjoy it?You have to USE the item for full enjoyment.Are some Amigans like the secret collector who has works of art in a vault where no one can enjoy them?

Copyrights and patents should never have been extended to the current ridiculous span and even many software patents should never have been granted in the first place.If you can't market and profit from  the work in the first 14 or 28 years (as in previous versions of the laws)then let society benefit by public domain.

No work was created in a vacuum ,everyone builds on that which came before him.
 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: Pirated Amiga software on ebay
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2010, 07:11:13 PM »
Quote from: recidivist;578080
If the copyrights owners can't be bothered at this point ,I say people who get all exercised about "pirating" of old,long abandoned software need to "get a life"!


Who's the bigger fool?  The fool, or the fool who follows him?
 

Offline orb85750

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Re: Pirated Amiga software on ebay
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2010, 07:31:48 PM »
Quote from: recidivist;578080
If the copyrights owners can't be bothered at this point ,I say people who get all exercised about "pirating" of old,long abandoned software need to "get a life"!

Some no doubt are incensed by the "loss in value" of their"extemely rare,original NIB" software collections;tough!

All that high-priced software sitting in unopened boxes ,and who gets to enjoy it?You have to USE the item for full enjoyment.Are some Amigans like the secret collector who has works of art in a vault where no one can enjoy them?

Copyrights and patents should never have been extended to the current ridiculous span and even many software patents should never have been granted in the first place.If you can't market and profit from  the work in the first 14 or 28 years (as in previous versions of the laws)then let society benefit by public domain.

No work was created in a vacuum ,everyone builds on that which came before him.

Please let me know when you produce something useful with great effort so that I may steal it from you to sell for my own profit.  Thanks.  (Do all the copyright holders know that some eBay seller is making money by reproducing their stuff?  Doubtful given the several thousand titles.)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 07:43:41 PM by orb85750 »
 

Offline ajlwalker

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Re: Pirated Amiga software on ebay
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2010, 07:55:27 PM »
I can see both sides of this argument, but to be honest, AUD31 for 9 DVDs!!! all the production, packaging, creating the advert, taking the time to put it up on ebay etc.  Just how much profit is this guy making?  I'd say pretty much nothing.

I tend to think his reply is honest and that he is merely getting these out to the community.
 

Offline mongo

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Re: Pirated Amiga software on ebay
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2010, 08:16:59 PM »
Quote from: ajlwalker;578089
I can see both sides of this argument, but to be honest, AUD31 for 9 DVDs!!! all the production, packaging, creating the advert, taking the time to put it up on ebay etc.  Just how much profit is this guy making?  I'd say pretty much nothing.

I tend to think his reply is honest and that he is merely getting these out to the community.


DVDs are dirt cheap. So are labels and plastic envelopes for them.

How much profit is he making? I'd estimate about $29 minus eBay fees.
 

Offline ajlwalker

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Re: Pirated Amiga software on ebay
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2010, 09:23:04 PM »
Quote from: mongo;578094
DVDs are dirt cheap. So are labels and plastic envelopes for them.

How much profit is he making? I'd estimate about $29 minus eBay fees.


Wow, I wish you worked in procurement for the UK Treasury.  Our tax would be a lot lower.

AUD2 is about GBP1.20.  You can really get 9 blank DVDs and labels etc for £1.20?

I guess he could divide this $29 4000 ways for each game and send off 3/4 cents to the publishers.
 

Offline Daedalus

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Re: Pirated Amiga software on ebay
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2010, 09:33:53 PM »
Lol, well maybe a slight exaggeration, but it's not that far off considering you can buy printable DVD-Rs in bulk for just under 14p a disc. That's £1.25 for 9. Maybe he prints them and their labels in work, maybe even ships them from there using work-supplied jiffy bags... I've seen people do it for other stuff :)

So let's be generous and guess he's making $25 per sale...
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Offline Amiga_Nut

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Re: Pirated Amiga software on ebay
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2010, 11:49:30 PM »
Quote from: Crom00;578020
Fishy fiz.. your dedication is admirable but when the IP holders don't bother protecting their own IP I wouldn't waste your time doing it for them. When the legal pros don't bother to do their job it's becuase they see no $$$ in the game.

So in effect your dedication (perfectly admirable and honorable) simply puts cash in the pockets of IP holders too lazy or incompitent to do it themselves.

It's like feeding prime rib to lazy sharks
in this analogy prime rib= your valuable free time.

That being said EBAY should step up and should be liable for allowing this to be sold. Then

Will the said IP holder take on ebay? In the end it's not about if you're wrong or right but who has the most cash for a legal battle. There's just not enough cash being traded here to show up on any legal teams radar. At best it would be a side project for a legal intern... but even these days interns are "free legal slave labor" their time is better spent on paying clients. A lawyer told me that... so that gives you some insight to mindset of the players inlvolved in this game.


ebay is a one way communication machine due to their monopolistic hold of the online auction business. If they mark it as illegal at trust and safety you have 2 choices.......

1. Don't ever relist
2. Relist and get banned

Trust and safety do not enter into discussion even if they are legally in the wrong FACT.

As for the seller, that 19gb's of ADFs in the TOSEC 7zip down to 3.5gb and that leaves 2.5 CDs for CD32.....and DVD-Rs cost 15p so he makes $28 per set in profit.......bit of a scam really......be my guest ;)
 

Offline runequester

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Re: Pirated Amiga software on ebay
« Reply #29 from previous page: September 07, 2010, 12:45:26 AM »
Considering there's plenty of people selling bootleg dvd's, cd's and copies of games currently being sold, I doubt ebay is getting too fussed about someone selling a bootleg copy of Turrican or whatever.


Im somewhat amused.. some guy keeps offering up A1200's with compact flash hard drives and, according to the auctions, 1000's of games installed with whdload.

Somehow doubt he bought all of those..