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AuthorTopic: Barry Altman and Commodore USA  (Read 32067 times)

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Offline Iggy

Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2010, 08:39:05 PM »
OK folks, here it is:

I spent a little less than an hour talking to Barry Altman today. As we already know, Commodore USA, LLC is a legitimate Florida corporation.

They do have one product to sell currently named "Phoenix" which he admits is basically the same as a similar computer sold by Cybernet.

Yes, he does own a company that imports and distributes bathroom vanities. But he isn't trying to hide this, any other facts relevant to himself or Commodore USA from anyone. In fact he's encouraged anyone interested in a civil conversation to contact him and he's more than willing to provide answers to any questions you have. In his words "I don't lie, I don't bullsh*t".

He also admits that the website, in his own words, is "fu*king awful" and is currently considering ways to improve it. He claims that he used of images he didn't create, after searches to find the content owner were friutless, and that he would still like to contact the images' creator.

He does seem serious about the PC64 (which is just in the beginning of its design) and an X86 Amiga (for which rights have just been secured), but he's a little disturbed by some of the negative posts he's read.

With a background in business, I can understand part of his confusion. Some of you responding are just thrilled to see these names back in production again. Others have a lot of bagage due to past unfullfilled promises and the understandable concern that this might just be a con (like so many other announcements in the past). Some of the comments from this side have been pretty extreme.

Well, it doesn't appear to be a con. And when you think about it he has a point, how (considering the small size of our market) would he profit from that? No, Altman appears to just be a savvy businessman who recognizes that the Commodore name still has brand recognition.

I can't fault his logic on the decision to license the Commodore name. As to Amiga, well if Bill McEwen still has the right to sell the name, then this was probably inevitable. Frankly, I wish Hyperion and A-eon luck, but their market is focused on us (the hobbyists). Currently a PPC based AOS powered system isn't a product for the average consumer. Altman isn't pushing any alternative system. He stated that he uses Linux, but was concerned about AROS' viability as a product for the consumer market. Further he stated the Commodore USA products would also support Windows (and that OSX might even be a possibility - for the consumer, I don't think he wants to worry about issues revolving around installing that).

I have about three pages of notes. This covers some major points, not all of them though. If you've got any specific points, I can try to address them OR you can take them directly to Barry.

Hey, I'm not concerned with the label on my PC, but some of you might be. Any of you AROS users that may want a sense of validation, you may be able to run your OS on a Commodore branded Amiga PC soon. And C64 fans, your going to get one serious unusual Christmas gift - a PC in a C64 shell. That'll confuse your family, friends and associates.

I'm sure there's more to come on this. So, as Redrumloa has pointed out, we need to remain calm, polite, and have some perspective. These announcements aren't the end of the world. AROS may now have something/someone in their corner that strengthens their position (whoever is in charge - you ought to contact Altman). The rest of us, were hardly going to be damaged by someone who can afford to pick these brands a run with them.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 08:42:33 PM by Iggy »
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Offline mongo

Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2010, 10:09:23 PM »
Barry's business practices seem to be less than honest.

For example :

http://www.commodoreusa.citymax.com/f/PHOENIXGUIDE__copy.doc.pdf

http://ftp://209.35.190.68/ZPC9100%20V%201.02%20DRIVERS/ZPC9100_Manual.pdf

You can clearly see "ZPC9100" on the motherboard picture in the instructions for installing the memory in the Commodore USA Phoenix manual.
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2010, 11:14:27 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;577383
He claims that he used of images he didn't create, after searches to find the content owner were friutless, and that he would still like to contact the images' creator.
Can you elaborate this? Does he really think it's ok to use graphics and designs if he cannot contact the author? I can't believe any CEO to that out of touch with reality.

This is just totally outrageous.

I would very much like that you ask him if he thinks copyright is a joke to him. Also he might be interested to read 10 Big Myths about copyright explained.

As for not being able to contact the Marko Hirv... Well he isn't exactly hiding you know, he works as Art Director at Taevas, estonian advertising company. I believe this is him: http://www.flickr.com/photos/adelltaevas/2440196147/ and here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/adelltaevas/2441025952/

Adell Taevas OÜ
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Anyone with a bit of googling can find him easily.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 07:33:59 AM by Piru »
 

Offline bbond007

Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2010, 11:27:34 PM »
I don't think a legitimate south Florida corporation exists. The land of scams!

The US starts in Boca.

I wonder if this is a division of Psystar(the Mac ppl) which is based in Doral FL - and is reportedly run out of an 18 wheeler.

Wait, I said to much... if McBill finds out you can run a shady company out of an 18 wheeler in south Florida - That will be the new Amiga.com HQ.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 11:41:30 PM by bbond007 »
 

Offline Iggy

Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2010, 12:12:53 AM »
Quote from: mongo;577399
Barry's business practices seem to be less than honest.

For example :

http://www.commodoreusa.citymax.com/f/PHOENIXGUIDE__copy.doc.pdf

http://ftp://209.35.190.68/ZPC9100%20V%201.02%20DRIVERS/ZPC9100_Manual.pdf

You can clearly see "ZPC9100" on the motherboard picture in the instructions for installing the memory in the Commodore USA Phoenix manual.

Yes, I probably should  have mentioned that in my posting, since he brought that up. The Phoenix is essentially the same as the Cybernet computer.

So, I'd have to say, not only are you right but that the pictures in both manuals appear to be exactly the same.

I don't think he'd deny that. Especially since you can compare the two documents and see where the Commodore document uses the same photos as the Cybernet document. Since both are copyrighted, unless Cybernet has a problem with this its not really an issue.

The issue is whether or not the PC 64 gets built. The Amiga could be assembled from standard computer parts, in fact could be purchased whole from another company. However, the C64's case isn't going to appear in anyone else's product. Now, if he manages to present this product for sale, he'll have at least proven he can offer something unique.

I'll give him till Christmas, and maybe even a little longer, but if he can't produce what he's announced then he's dishonest. Until then, he's just doing what plenty of other small computer resellers do.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2010, 12:16:08 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;577383
OK folks, here it is:


Thanks for the effort, and thanks for the info! :)

I look forward to this new Commodore Amiga, and kudos to him for actually doing what many people dreamed about for many years - bringing the Commodore and Amiga brands together again! :)

And if you can install AROS on it, it will be an upswing for AROS as well! :-)

I think 2011 might be the year of Amiga! :-)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline tone007

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Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2010, 12:17:30 AM »
-1
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Offline takemehomegrandma

Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2010, 12:24:38 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;577420
Yes, I probably should  have mentioned that in my posting, since he brought that up. The Phoenix is essentially the same as the Cybernet computer.

So, I'd have to say, not only are you right but that the pictures in both manuals appear to be exactly the same.

I don't think he'd deny that. Especially since you can compare the two documents and see where the Commodore document uses the same photos as the Cybernet document. Since both are copyrighted, unless Cybernet has a problem with this its not really an issue.

The issue is whether or not the PC 64 gets built. The Amiga could be assembled from standard computer parts, in fact could be purchased whole from another company. However, the C64's case isn't going to appear in anyone else's product. Now, if he manages to present this product for sale, he'll have at least proven he can offer something unique.

I'll give him till Christmas, and maybe even a little longer, but if he can't produce what he's announced then he's dishonest. Until then, he's just doing what plenty of other small computer resellers do.


Yup, when did branding and rebranding become something ugly? What's so different from slapping on an Amiga sticker on a Teron? Oh wait, the Teron never had Amiga stickers... ;)

Seriously, he is obviously running a pure trading company, and there is nothing wrong with this. He has now obtained the right to sell some stuff under the Amiga marks. Great! :) AFAIK he has never claimed to have been developing anything. He is putting together components from various sources, like hardware, OS and fun trademarks, in order to create something that can be perceived as something slightly more valuable than the components separately. I think people should just give him a break...

:)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline mongo

Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2010, 12:25:12 AM »
From section 6.2 of the Commodore USA Phoenix manual :

Commodore USA, LLC has consistently won recognition for excellence in the
design and manufacturing of high quality products. Please visit our website at:
http://www.commodoreusa.net to see the very latest information on all of our exciting,
new products.

Uh.. What?
 

Offline TheGoose

Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2010, 12:26:34 AM »
Wow , he's a savvy business man because he knows "Commodore" still has brand recognition! Golly I never thought of that, Wow.

Almost like a double rainbow!

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Offline mongo

Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2010, 12:32:24 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;577420
Yes, I probably should  have mentioned that in my posting, since he brought that up. The Phoenix is essentially the same as the Cybernet computer.

So, I'd have to say, not only are you right but that the pictures in both manuals appear to be exactly the same.


It is not essentially the same, it is exactly the same.

Quote

I don't think he'd deny that. Especially since you can compare the two documents and see where the Commodore document uses the same photos as the Cybernet document.


Well, the photo of the heatsink has the Cybernet name poorly photoshopped off.

Quote

Since both are copyrighted, unless Cybernet has a problem with this its not really an issue.


Uh... Both are copyrighted by different companies. I can't just take something written by someone else and change a few names and claim it as my own.
 

Offline tone007

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Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2010, 12:38:38 AM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;577423
Yup, when did branding and rebranding become something ugly? What's so different from slapping on an Amiga sticker on a Teron? Oh wait, the Teron never had Amiga stickers...


Commodore and Amiga were something original and different. Taking run of the mill PCs that don't do anything that any other PC on the market (from established vendors with real reputations and real support) can do and branding them Commodore/Amiga to play on the fond memories people have of the names from their early computing experiences (the "good old days" which most seem so eager to reclaim) for nothing but profit is very lame.

Bring on the original product, even if it's only a replica C64 case.  At least that'd show a bit more effort than doing some paperwork and ordering generic computers.
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Offline mongo

Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2010, 12:50:48 AM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;577423
Yup, when did branding and rebranding become something ugly? What's so different from slapping on an Amiga sticker on a Teron? Oh wait, the Teron never had Amiga stickers... ;)

Seriously, he is obviously running a pure trading company, and there is nothing wrong with this. He has now obtained the right to sell some stuff under the Amiga marks. Great! :) AFAIK he has never claimed to have been developing anything. He is putting together components from various sources, like hardware, OS and fun trademarks, in order to create something that can be perceived as something slightly more valuable than the components separately. I think people should just give him a break...

:)


Really?

http://www.commodoreusa.net/press.html

In response to an overwhelming demand from former Commodore users worldwide, Commodore USA’s CTO Leo Nigro announced today that their new Commodore PC64 will be available for purchase this holiday season. Featuring an exact replica of the original beige chassis Commodore C64, this new addition to our lineup will include an Intel Atom 525 CPU with NVIDIA Ion2 graphics, 4GB DDR3 memory, 1TB Hdd, HDMI, DVD/CD optical drive (Blu-ray optional), dual-link DVI, six USB ports, integrated 802.11n WiFi, bluetooth and a 6-in-1 media card reader.

About Commodore USA, LLC:

Commodore USA, LLC designs, produces and markets a series of all-in-one Commodore branded keyboard computers, and other unique form factor computers and consumer electronics.

Kind of makes it sound like they design, produce and market a series of all-in-one Commodore branded keyboard computers, and other unique form factor computers and consumer electronics, doesn't it?
 

Offline actung_bab

Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2010, 01:12:05 AM »
chould you ask about where this leaves hyperion and all work they have put in
and just leaves bit of confusion about where and what a amiga pc is or chould be
to me of course right for people to make a buck and good on them but , not that my opion counts as l dont make hard ware or software and not affected in any way money wise
but to stop hyperion and others of making the choice to port to x 86 in there contact many years ago . whos knows gateway might wanted this as there pc maker , but to then
say hay guess what we making x86 machines with Aros just as hyperion are about to make good on there hard work over many many years just seems wrong.
And think amiga people arent silly they can see people that actualy follow through and
the old saying actions speak lounder than words springs to mind.
And chould you just say l was feeling postive about amiga as hobby with likes of amiga round table and even when they made the annoucment about this deal l was bit confused as l though hyperion had legal rights to os 3.1 and amiga brand
okay thats okay for me l guess . but this big but l read about legal fights and sueing l just turned of all toghter . just brings everone down l mean whats the postive in that
surley if your got a idea a product you want focus on that and use all your energy to that agghhhh

just my 10 cents worth
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Offline Iggy

Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2010, 01:14:44 AM »
Quote from: tone007;577429
Commodore and Amiga were something original and different. Taking run of the mill PCs that don't do anything that any other PC on the market (from established vendors with real reputations and real support) can do and branding them Commodore/Amiga to play on the fond memories people have of the names from their early computing experiences (the "good old days" which most seem so eager to reclaim) for nothing but profit is very lame.

Bring on the original product, even if it's only a replica C64 case.  At least that'd show a bit more effort than doing some paperwork and ordering generic computers.

Yes, this is not your father's Commodore. And even if Altman can get the PC 64 ready for sale, its not my cup of tea. But, the introduction of that product will require some creative work. He'll sell a few of those even if it is just a PC.

Is it a legitimate business? Sure appears to be. As he pointed out to me, he is in business to generate a profit (this is a reasonable, hell essential, goal for any business). So why would anyone think its a con? How would he profit from that? He's not asking anyone for money up front and while he may have made these product announcements prematurely, you have to give him credit for one thing. He got the right to use those two trademarks. No one else even considered the possibility.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"