Amiga PCs on the way....

[tone007]

...as was the Teron, Pegasos and the "X1000" computers; desktop oriented motherboards with the bog standard PC controllers, slots, connectors and other interfaces. The only difference was that those were based around PPC instead of x86, otherwise it's exactly the same PC stuff.

You forgot the other (major, important) difference, those systems run OSes the standard x86 PCs cannot.  That PPC "dongle" unfortunately can't be stuck on your Dell.

[Tripitaka]

You forgot the other (major, important) difference, those systems run OSes the standard x86 PCs cannot.  That PPC "dongle" unfortunately can't be stuck on your Dell.

......One hundred and eighty!  As they say in darts. Or hole in one. Or goal. Or "you hit the nail on the head". Or, well you get the idea, whatever way you put it your damn right.

[Tripitaka]

Who say they can't? As we just have seen, one does not exclude one other!

Has the Natami team even asked?

Maybe Commodore could make an "AIO" computer out of the Natami when it's finished? That would be super cool! A Commodore Amiga with real but updated Amiga style HW, in a A1200 styled case!

I'd buy one!

Who says they can't? well I didn't, in fact I think that would have been the smartest move, that was my point. The fact that you'd buy one goes to show that at least for one customer (you) it would have been the smartest move, they would have at least one sale. I intend to buy a Natami too, and an Amiga sticker on it certainly would not put me off. An Amiga labelled machine not running an Amiga OS however, they can keep that. I know it could run AROS or UAE but as I've said before, so can any other x86 PC.

[Iggy]

You forgot the other (major, important) difference, those systems run OSes the standard x86 PCs cannot.  That PPC "dongle" unfortunately can't be stuck on your Dell.

The PPC issue didn't affect Apple when it changed platforms. Neither of the makers of these PPC OS' has written off the idea of doing an X86 version.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a PC from Micheal Dell and we must have a different definition of "dongle". If you mean the PPC processor, there are dozens of PPC boards that plug into X86 PCs.

[tone007]

The PPC issue didn't affect Apple when it changed platforms. Neither of the makers of these PPC OS' has written off the idea of doing an X86 version.

Hi, we're talking about Amiga OSes here.  OS4 and MorphOS only run on PPC.  Calling the PPC a dongle is more of a joke than anything.  Bottom line, Amiga OS4 and MorphOS currently only run on particular hardware, which you'll need if you want to run those OSes.

..and if you think the PPC issue didn't affect Apple when they changed platforms, ask them how much they spent on development to get OS X on x86.

[Iggy]

Oh, no doubt there'd be a lot of work moving from a RISC PPC processor to a CISC X86 processor.
But there's nothing that one type of processor can do that can't be rewritten for another, completely different processor.
One of the real challenges presented by the move to X86 platforms would be all the additional chipsets and drivers need to support the wider variety of hardware.

[Tripitaka]

..and if you think the PPC issue didn't affect Apple when they changed platforms, ask them how much they spent on development to get OS X on x86.

Lot's, I think you will find the total cost was in the hundreds of millions (at this point I'm half expecting Bloodline to give us an exact figure).

[tone007]

Oh, no doubt there'd be a lot of work moving from a RISC PPC processor to a CISC X86 processor.
But there's nothing that one type of processor can do that can't be rewritten for another, completely different processor.
One of the real challenges presented by the move to X86 platforms would be all the additional chipsets and drivers need to support the wider variety of hardware.

Thank you for these platitudes.

[Iggy]

Thank you for these platitudes.

Actually, I'm comfortably above having to deal with polite platitudes. I've got nothing personally invested in this. I'm a MorphOS user. I don't use classic or new generation Amiga hardware.  If the MorphOS developers decided to move to X86, I'd probably follow.

But I'm not hung up on the name Amiga. Its just a name. Apparently one you can buy.

[Amiga_Nut]

That is really the crux of it.

Some mom and pop PC retailer decided to run their business just like most mom and pop PC retailers, but saw an opportunity to appeal to a niche market by selling them in cases, first, that looked reminiscent of Amigas, with a commodore sticker slapped on it.  Then announced plans to make replica cases and sell PCs in those.  For those that want their PCs to look like that, great.  For those that don't, who cares what some mom and pop PC shop does?

Yes, you can buy a used Amiga cheaper.  So what?  Lots of us buy new thing that we could buy cheaper used.

Yes, this isn't the original hardware.  So what?  Many of us run emulated Amigas.

Yes, you could get the same equipment in a case that doesn't look like an Amiga/C64.  So what?  Lots of cases are purchased strictly for their looks.

Yes, they used a copyrighted image without permission.  So what?  So have the rest of us, and it is actually quite common in mom and pop shops.  It this really offends you, don't buy from them.

Yes, they are using a trademark they didn't create.  So what?  Either they have a legal right to it or they don't.  They are not fooling anyone, or even trying to fool anyone about what the actual product is.

I don't get all the hate that is heaped on this guy.  If you like the product he sells, buy it.  If you don't, don't.  I run emulation, so I like what he is presenting.  He isn't promising to release a new architecture with a new OS that is going to be better than anything currently on the market.  He isn't promising a revolution.  He is promising (promise may even be too strong of a word) stock PCs with a Commodore logo on it, and a couple of replica cases with standard PC hardware.

The Amiga community has had a lot of pie in the sky promises that never panned out.  Some that really couldn't pan out.  That doesn't seem to be what is happening here.  A couple of replica cases with PCs inside, and full AROS driver support is a lot less ambitious than many of the products we have actually seen released.

Certainly the MiniMig was a more complex project than a replica case.  Certainly AROS as a whole was a lot more complex than just the few drivers necessary to make a particular machine AROS compatible.  Certainly MorphOS and AmigaOS 4 are more complex than replica cases.  Even the Indivision and Catweasle are more complex than this.

There is nothing that has been presented so far that indicates that this modest project is not real.  So, lets just not send prepayments and wait and see.  If the machines don't show up, no problem.  We still have our money.  If they do, great!

1. Running a legitimate respectful business and using copyrighted material without permission is mutually exclusive.

2. The Commodore stickers were a bit of a farce legally speaking.

3. Those machines being sold are about 40% cheaper when purchased from other outlets.

4. Is this Amiga deal even 'real' and confirmed in a legal capacity by Bill McEwan who has fallen off the face of the earth ??

These and many other issues will never be answered by B S Altman, 'CEO' of CommodoreUSA*

*not legally linked to any Amiga or Commodore IP owning companies despite the name.

[Amiga_Nut]

What I was implying, is that you seem to believe that someone would file a trade mark somewhere. But why would that be necessary?

Take Hyperion's settlement with Amiga Inc for example; "AmigaOS" is not a trade mark in its own, AFAIK. I'd say there is *only one mark*, and that is "Amiga". It is owned by Amiga Inc, and no-one else.

What Hyperion seems to have, is *merely an agreement* stipulating that "OK, we (Amiga Inc) will not sue you if you use our Amiga mark in the following ways 'AmigaOS', 'Amiga OS', 'AmigaONE', 'Amiga ONE', when marketing your OS4".

AFAIK, no-one would need to file anything anywhere in order to make such an agreement, and I think Commodore has a similar deal!

Legally the business scope of Hyperion, and hence those actions that are permissible by Amiga Inc, are actually laid down officially in the outcome of the Amiga Inc vs Hyperion court case settlement.

Of course you need proof for permission to sell shoddy no-brand Chinese PCs with Amiga/Commodore logos, and a pathetic markup via some ham-fisted website, there has to be something somewhere legally speaking. Whether that agreement is ever made public is up to B S Altman.

[Amiga_Nut]

Selling the product is the easy part, since it already exists! Anyone on this forum could buy and resell an already existing computer after adding a sticker to it.

The only product in question is the custom C64 breadbin shaped machine, which would require new cases to be manufactured.

Monkey see monkey do as they say

You mean the stock Wikimedia/Wikicommons image of a C64 on his website and the picture of somebody else's modified C64 with the DVD/CD drive door open on the left side? Yeah that inspires confidence

Ditto the fantasy render of a future possibility of some Amiga model imagined in the 90s produced by a stranger (who's signature and logo is removed from the stolen picture).

If you want to pay 100+ bucks extra for a low rent non-brand PC with a sticky label saying 'Commodore' or 'Amiga' on it and running an OS you can download for free.....then be my guest people

IF the guy actually had some custom cases designed and built for sale to modders, with an option of purchasing pre-built machines too like kit-car companies in the automotive industry I suppose, then I might have more respect for the asswipe.

I'm off to register a website with the name Commodore in it, nick some swish graphics from other websites, and proclaim the C64 is still alive (after printing some photoglossy labels I designed and sticking them on some piece of crap budget PCs direct from a Chinese warehouse now

[Belial6]

1. Running a legitimate respectful business and using copyrighted material without permission is mutually exclusive.

Some people keep hammering on this.  All I can say is, good luck finding companies that you consider legitimate and respectful.

Do you refuse to with these non-legitimate respectful businesses?  Avoiding them would be like avoiding businesses that use gasoline.

[kolla]

Lot's, I think you will find the total cost was in the hundreds of millions (at this point I'm half expecting Bloodline to give us an exact figure).

It was much more work for them to port NeXTStep to PowerPC in the first place, and that did take a few years. Moving OSX from PowerPC to X86 was not so much work - the central parts of the OS had been running on X86 all along, the trouble was alot more about having all software providers move to X86 as well.

[Kronos]

I'm off to register a website with the name Commodore in it, nick some swish graphics from other websites, and proclaim the C64 is still alive (after printing some photoglossy labels I designed and sticking them on some piece of crap budget PCs direct from a Chinese warehouse now

You mean like:
http://www.retrocom.de/Commodore/  ?

O.k. no C= in the domain, but still .....

[guest5160]

I just found this lurking:

Cybernetman ZPC-GX31

http://www.cybernetman.com/cart/viewProduct.cfm?productId=2