Bad 4 Gb Seagate HD fails on Windows98 but not on Amiga. How come ??

[Effy]

The following question is not a complaint but more a way to try to understand something. Here at home I have got several pc's, Pentium3's, that I buy in Germany (Ebay) and try to sell them in Belgium to make a bit of profit. Doesn't always work because sometimes some things don't work, like a harddrive. Then I try to re-format that harddrive and usually it works again and I can install Windows98 SE when having 64 Mb Ram or Windows XP Pro when having 128 Mb Ram. But now I end up with two Seagate model ST36531A 4 Gb harddrives that I can not format using Fdisk and the format-command. On one hd it breaks off the format and on the other I can't even use Fdisk on.  Bummer. #### happens I guess. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. So in a last attempt to get some life out of it I connected them to my A1200 PPC with Powerflyer Zorro4 controller and booted up with Install 3.1 disc and now I am formatting the first hd after HDtoolbox divided the hd in two partitions of 2047 K ... 2nd partition is formatting now and the first one is done and okay. How come this works on Amiga and not on PC ?? What is the technical reason for this ?? Saying 'pc sucks' is too easy, I prefer a better answer. Does this mean that every Amiga user can go to his pc friends and say 'hey if you have got a so called crashed harddrive then just give it to me'

[Effy]

The 2nd harddisc seems really screwed up. After changing the drive type in HDtoolbox and low-level formatting it then I do a 'Verify Data on Drive' and after a few seconds I get the message 'Device didn't return good sense data!' ... but at least I got the other harddrive to work which two pc's couldn't !!!!!!  :-D

[fragment]

Effy wrote:
The 2nd harddisc seems really screwed up. After changing the drive type in HDtoolbox and low-level formatting it then I do a 'Verify Data on Drive' and after a few seconds I get the message 'Device didn't return good sense data!' ... but at least I got the other harddrive to work which two pc's couldn't !!!!!!  :-D

AFAIK you shouldn't lowlevel format IDE disks in any case. Only use the format in WB.

[Effy]

Fragment : I always do this when using a brandnew hd or a hd that comes from a pc, it's about being sure to shake off all the bad things before using it ... :-D

[KennyR]

Drives have ignored the lowlevel format request since 1996 or so. Lowlevel formatting a modern drive simply does nothing.

[Effy]

KennyR : do you call a 4 Gb hd modern ??  :-)

[Speelgoedmannetje]

Maybe Amiga ignores something Win9x does not

[KennyR]

Effy, more modern than 1996, I think.

But seriously, most if not all DMA-capable drives will totally ignore lowlevel formatting. The industry dropped this, not just because it wasn't needed any more because of improved electronics, but also because it was a quick way for a user to completely screw up his drive and demand an expensive replacement.

Edit: I'm a bit vague on the details when this happened though. Maybe someone could clarify?

[Effy]

Oops. That harddrive that I did get to work or at least to format on my A1200 is now in my A4000D. I hooked it up as slave but during booting from Install 3.1 disc I get a Software Failure. So I disconnect hd1 and use that fixed hd as master .... same result, can not get into workbench ... Error : 8000 0004 Task : 07009F60 ... maybe it's screwed up after all  :-?
Tried to go to early startup menu and there I see the two formatted partitions of this troubled harddrive. I tried to use the 'boot with no startup sequence' but I also could not get past the error message I get every time ...
Sometimes I see the workbench screen beginning to come up after the discdrive has loaded a lot and then again that error message about that software failure ... it't starting to get a little bit annoying, not yet a lot but still it's starting. Let's say that I know very good where my hammer is ....  8-)
Several minutes later. A minute ago I got into the workbench while typing this text, but it froze up and I had to reset and suddenly I got again in the workbench and could do what I want. I hadn't changed anything !! I started HDtoolbox and removed the 'bootable' flag and rebooted. Now I wanted to reformat the 2nd partition again ... software failure ... #### ... can anybody tell me what might be the cause of this trouble ?? Should I just dump it in the trashcan and forget about it ?? Use it for shooting practice ?? (need a gun for that  :-x )

[that_punk_guy]

Chances are if it wasn't working in the PC that even if you get it working in your Amiga, it's going to be unreliable. In this instance it's actually good IMO that the PC rejected it - at least it didn't lead you into a false sense of security.

[Effy]

Everything that comes from a pc worries me  8-)

Okay, I finally got that ####ing harddrive formatted on my A4000 in two equal partitions from which none is bootable. Finally !!  :-D  So then I hooked up again the original 1 Gb harddrive that I dsconnected after the trouble had started and which was supposed to be the only bootable. So with two harddrives connected I booted up again, still with Install 3.1, and I did get into the workbench, but no sign of that ####ing troubled harddrive  :-x  but I don't like to give up so easy so I loaded HDtoolbox to see what's going on ... only one harddrive noticed ....
(shit, forgot to remove that master jumper from that stupid haddrive ... who is perfect ??)
again in workbench but still nothing about that ####ing harddrive .... loaded HDtoolbox and this one sees the 2nd harddrive without any problem. How come workbench doesn't ?? So I do a 'verify data on drive' just to make sure (how can one ever be sure ??) .... man, this takes a long time ...  :-(  after 15 minutes of waiting and hearing all kind of rave music I finally hear the harddrive making a bad noise ... that keeps on making that same clicking noise that the heads jump up and down ... I can't take it anymore, soon it's gonna be Monday so I reset the thing !!
So there seems to be an error after block 12189524 ... let's try experimenting !! Instead of using the full 4 Gb of the ####ing hd I decide to remove the 2nd partition and expand the 1st partition to 3 Gb. Let's see if this works. 3 Gb is still better than no hd at all, not ??!

[Effy]

I'm trying to hide the fact that I'm getting a little bit annoyed. Hope nobody notices it ...

[that_punk_guy]

Effy wrote:
I'm trying to hide the fact that I'm getting a little bit annoyed. Hope nobody notices it ...

Well, I certainly couldn't ####ing tell ;-)

Seriously dude, this looks like one for target practice.  :-(

[Effy]

that_punk_guy : okay, I have just read your clever advice and executed the termination and dropped it into the trashcan next to my desk. It's not so spectacular as I hoped the end would be but at least I get rid of it ....  :-)

[Effy]

that_punk_guy : I'm now listening to 'Standaside' and it somehow makes me so quiet ... also 'that's for leaving me alone', two songs that I find on your website and that you call 'new song' ... I am definitely not the sliming type and I even often listen to rave and house but I do seem to like your songs ...  :-)