Legal issue of Kickstart ROMs

[orb85750]

You are right. That you can not buy the ROMs at all is a major problem.
Its not even clear who has the right to the OS at all.

I've read that the rights to Kickstart and the OS were not fully legally licensed by AMIGA Inc.
There was a German courtcase once stating that the rigth to the OS were not sold in the gateway sales.

It could be that Kickstart and AMIGA OS are in a legal limbo with no real owner.

Confusing, but who has licensed Cloanto, and who is accepting their money?  How/Why?

[kolla]

Plugging in a new set of kickstart ROMs _is_ the quick workaround.
Cloanto distributes a modified kickstart that pretty much is a OS3.9 kickstart (since when did they get permission to distribute modified kickstarts anyways?), why don't they offer EPROMs with it on, I wonder.

[tone007]

Plugging in a new set of kickstart ROMs _is_ the quick workaround.

Not if you count shipping time!

[Lockon_15]

@Kolla
Burning ROMs would require some real work, something which disappeared in AF around 2006 - it became something similar like EA's FIFA brand...but market is made for everyone and preferences are alyways feature of an individual. I guess he (Cloanto) make more retail from online editions which are more contributing to overall business case.

[haywirepc]

"And so wrong on so many levels. Such matters should never be decided at the whim of a community let alone an individual. There are rules and mechanisms to protect the intelectual and legal rights of those that are gifted and minded enough to share their produce. "
 
Whats wrong is people who have no legal right to control these roms still doing so. How long can you rape the corpse of a dead company before you give what should belong to the community back to the community?
 
I publicly challenge anyone who claims to have the sole rights to distribute images of these roms to sue me after I post them on a public website for anyone to download.
 
The patents, trademarks, (C)opyrights and IP rights have LONG expired, but those still trying to rape that corpse don't want anyone to know that. This is so they can continue making a few bucks off the amiga corpse.
 
These rom images SHOULD be posted for free download. Anyone is free to try and sue me for doing so, but I don't see that happening. Could get very expensive proving you have the rights to things made 10, 15 and 20 years ago, when amiga the company and its ip has changed hands 9 times along with IP, trademarks and copy rights.

[persia]

Copyright is 50 years, longer I think in the EU.  You are right, there is no more Amiga Intellectual property, but the copyright on the code continues.  What will happen when you post the roms to your website is that someone will complain to your ISP and your ISP not wanting to be involved in piracy will pull the plug on your site....

The ROMs are ridiculously easy to obtain if you want.  Just google them and torrent or rapidshare.  Having your website commit suicide over it makes no sense.

[tone007]

These rom images SHOULD be posted for free download.

Why?  Someone has legal rights to them.  How about you give me your car for free, I think you should.  You didn't invent or create it, it's certainly not yours.

[Belial6]

Why?  Someone has legal rights to them.  How about you give me your car for free, I think you should.  You didn't invent or create it, it's certainly not yours.

The "they created it so they should have exclusive rights forever" idea is simply bunk.  I have yet to see a single completely original idea.  Not one.  That includes the Kickstart Roms.  I have also not met one single person in my life that has not committed copyright violations.  The whole of human society has been built off freely using the ideas of those before you.  I'm not going to say that the idea of copyright is inherently wrong, but it is not property.  It is not a finite resource.  It is damaging to society as a whole for it to last as long as it does, and it is particularly damaging to our culture for it to last as long as it does.

Copyright is the law, but to claim that it is morally right is silly.

[tone007]

Copyright is the law, but to claim that it is morally right is silly.

Morals have no place in the legal system!

psh.

[persia]

We're talking two different things here.  Yes, ideas get built upon all the time, you should just develop a better kickstart and leave Amiga Inc's alone, that's exactly what happens all the time.  The have complete control of their software, but it doesn't mean you can't build your own and build it better.  Why do you think AROS was started?  It's Amiga like code that doesn't belong to Amiga Inc, nobody is controlling AROS.

[Trev]

@persia

And much, much longer in the US. Without a corporate owner, the rights to the software might revert to the individual authors, depending on who "owned" the bits in the first place. We won't see a public domain Kickstart until 2085 or so, unless the owner(s) releases it into the public domain. Really.

[haywirepc]

"Why? Someone has legal rights to them. How about you give me your car for free, I think you should. You didn't invent or create it, it's certainly not yours. "
 
Who has the rights? Who has PROVEN they have the rights legally? No one. No one has ever proven they have the exclusive right to sell or distribute the kickstart rom, a copy of which can be obtained quite legally from MY amiga that I bought so many years ago. Its my rom, I own it, and If I want to give away images of it, you can't sue me for that.
 
The writers of the roms are gone, and no longer claim rights. The original owners of amiga are gone and no longer claim rights, the owners after that and after that and after that are also gone and no longer claim rights. Show me the legal documents or shut up. PROVE IT, or shut up.
 
Show me the legal documents and trail from original amiga to the current claimed holders of the "exclusive" rights to copy or distribute these rom chips or images... No one has ever done that.
 
I can say I own the rights to atari 2600 roms but I can't go suing people or claiming piracy or exclusive rights to sell roms or prevent those who post roms on their websites unless I prove ownership.
 
Thats all I'm saying, show us the proof... No one ever has, and I suspect its because no one can.
 
Steven

[runequester]

Why?  Someone has legal rights to them.  How about you give me your car for free, I think you should.  You didn't invent or create it, it's certainly not yours.

Yes. You are absolutely right. The two cases are completely identical, and your statement is not a strawman at all.

[haywirepc]

"
 
"Why? Someone has legal rights to them. How about you give me your car for free, I think you should. You didn't invent or create it, it's certainly not yours. "
 
Oh I forgot to mention... I have a legal document to prove I bought my car.
I can show anyone proof I own my car. No one has proven they own the roms.
No one. Show us the documents. That should settle this whole argument, and if you really did own the roms or rights to the roms, I would think you would certainly want to show that "title" to prevent any misunderstandings.
 
Steven

[mongo]

Who has the rights? Who has PROVEN they have the rights legally? No one. No one has ever proven they have the exclusive right to sell or distribute the kickstart rom, a copy of which can be obtained quite legally from MY amiga that I bought so many years ago. Its my rom, I own it, and If I want to give away images of it, you can't sue me for that.
 
The writers of the roms are gone, and no longer claim rights. The original owners of amiga are gone and no longer claim rights, the owners after that and after that and after that are also gone and no longer claim rights. Show me the legal documents or shut up. PROVE IT, or shut up.
 
Show me the legal documents and trail from original amiga to the current claimed holders of the "exclusive" rights to copy or distribute these rom chips or images... No one has ever done that.
 
I can say I own the rights to atari 2600 roms but I can't go suing people or claiming piracy or exclusive rights to sell roms or prevent those who post roms on their websites unless I prove ownership.
 
Thats all I'm saying, show us the proof... No one ever has, and I suspect its because no one can.
 
Steven

Somebody owns the rights. It doesn't matter who it is. What matters is that you don't own the rights. When you can prove that you own the rights, you can distribute the ROM images any way you see fit.

[Trev]

Oh I forgot to mention... I have a legal document to prove I bought my car.
I can show anyone proof I own my car. No one has proven they own the roms.
No one. Show us the documents. That should settle this whole argument, and if you really did own the roms or rights to the roms, I would think you would certainly want to show that "title" to prevent any misunderstandings

Assuming all the legal bits were properly followed, you should have a document somewhere in your possession which states you do not own the software, you've only licensed it. Copy away, I say, but be prepared to face the consequences (not that there will ever be any).