Amiga vs PC

[Karlos]

This is so true.

I guess it's easier to say "we don't need it" than "you're right, it would be great, but we don't have it now, that's too bad". Seems like some people still live in 1989, thinking the Amiga is still cutting edge in a lot of areas... Problem is it's 2010, and it's lagging in pretty much every areas instead.

In the process of becoming more and more obsolescent, I actually find it quite interesting to see just what can still be done with it though.

I still find it much more fun writing code for AmigaOS and m68K than I do for modern kit. The only thing that's really piqued my interest on the latter is GPU stuff.

[Arkhan]

No, I usually find walking away from arseholes helps quite a lot though.
If a person cannot engage with arguements, resorting to child-like foot-stamping, name-calling, and posturing, that's usually a good sign that they have nothing of value to contribute.

Theres plenty to contribute, you just think it all has to be delivered in a 5-page essay format complete with douche-tastic sounding phrases that you probably don't use in real life but do here because you have plenty of time to formulate everything.  If you talk like that in real life, do you also prance around in robes and wave a scepter around and demand your subjects bring you crisps and whatnot?

Not everyones going to deliver statements and opinions in a high and mighty Tolstoy approach.  You tout intelligence.  Use it to comprehend this simple fact.

Then perhaps you should learn to address your comments towards the person at whom you are directing them.

Everyone but you can connect the dots.  You're too busy polishing your scepter and demanding tea from your servants to lrn2forum.

Bigot? Explain how..

Everyone buys computer hardware.  You do, I do, the rest of the forum does.  Acting like you're above it all because you don't buy the latest stuff is pretty stupid of you.

No, you would be crying, I'd be looking for something more interesting to do than online wanking with a group of anonymous strangers who are the nearest thing to a group of friends I can insinuate myself into.

Aww whats the matter wittle baby?  Now YOU ran out of things to contribute so you have to resort to spewing ignorance?

All of my friends preordered the game too.  If you read the rest of this thread, you'd see that I stated I am a gamer.  A pretty serious one, as is the rest of the group I game with.  Sounds like you are projecting, and butt-hurt that you have noone to game with so you fap to your Amiga since noone wants to interact with wannabes like you on games.

If you don't believe me, have your subjects draw up the private jet and come here in a month.  Theres a gaming convention.  We're playing a ton of stuff.  Starblazers, mordheim, who knows what else.  Real people! Friends!  Things your ignorant ass seems to think I don't have.

That stupid little statement from you really reduced all of your pompous nonsense to nothing.  YOU DONE GOOFED SON.

Damn, say what you want about me from here on friend, I'm not going to get drawn further into a flamefest with someone who is clearly not interested in intelligent discussion of any kind.
/thread interest

You say this yet continue to post in the thread.  Don't talk the talk if you can't walk the walk.  Shut up and go diddle around in a new thread, or stay and cope with the madness.

[Franko]

@ B00tDisk

Now I see the same counterarguments being offered by the remaining Amiga users. "You don't need this, that or the other". Sheesh. Sad, really.

You imply by you own words that we remaining Amiga users are sad, so therefore you don't class yourself as an Amiga user, so why on earth are you blurting out such trash on an Amiga forum.

@Thorham

Anyway, I'll keep using this wonderful machine until I can't get any second hand ones anymore (that will be a very sad day indeed), and use my peecee for surfing (Amiga browser suck donkey balls) and a few other things, because Amigas (real Amigas, not those PPC+peecee parts things) have a coolness factor that the peecee will never beat.

You've got that right...

@Warpdesign

I guess it's easier to say "we don't need it" than "you're right, it would be great, but we don't have it now, that's too bad". Seems like some people still live in 1989, thinking the Amiga is still cutting edge in a lot of areas... Problem is it's 2010, and it's lagging in pretty much every areas instead.

What happened in 1989 that made that year so special to live in, if I was thinking that the Amiga was still cutting edge, then I would also be thinking that you were almost intelligent.

@Karlos

In some ways, I wonder what might have happened if they'd succeeded. We're quick to assume it would have been a good thing but perhaps we might not have liked the direction it may have taken.

In the process of becoming more and more obsolescent, I actually find it quite interesting to see just what can still be done with it though.

I still find it much more fun writing code for AmigaOS and m68K than I do for modern kit. The only thing that's really piqued my interest on the latter is GPU stuff.

At least you seem able to understand and appreciate why there are still some who are quite happy to use their Amigas.

[Thorham]

Real people! Friends!  Things your ignorant ass seems to think I don't have.

Considering how you behave, it's no wonder that people might think that :p

[stefcep2]

This is so true.

I guess it's easier to say "we don't need it" than "you're right, it would be great, but we don't have it now, that's too bad". Seems like some people still live in 1989, thinking the Amiga is still cutting edge in a lot of areas... Problem is it's 2010, and it's lagging in pretty much every areas instead.

Yes and no.

No-one thinks the Amiga is cutting edge any more.  BUT:

A GUI-driven OS and multitasking, graphics and sound co-processors capable of functioning with more or less zero CPU dependence are things that an A500 had and did, and a DOS box did not. These things provided fundamental improvements in the usability of the home computer.   So much so that todays computers have them as well, and even must have them.  It really WAS a revolution in the home computing paradigm, whereas what todays machines do is merely evolution, they still use a GUI, they multitask, they have GPU's that can function more or less independently of the CPU: they just do it faster, with more pixels and colors and more sound channels at higher sample rates.

One could easily argue that you can't do without a GUI-driven OS, multitasking and co-processors/GPU's.  Becasue most people really would NOT be able to use or want to use a  two color single tasking beeping cli-only OS, without investing an inordinate amount of time in learning text commands and actually getting something done.   But many, many people can(and contrary to what users on computer forums like this who like think that everyone runs 8 cores and 16 gig ram), quite happily run with smaller resolutions, less colors, and a few minutes longer to rip and encode the odd DVD or CD, and maybe play the odd PC game since an XBOX/PS3/Wii sits in front of their 50 inch plasma.  But take away their GUI, the multi-tasking and the co-processors and the PC becomes a boat anchor.  They NEED all that.

When people went form  Win 95 to Win 98 to Win 2000 to XP, Vista, and Win7 no-one went WOW!  This is f'en AMAZING. Because each step was just an incremental improvement on what was there before.  

The Amiga was a revolution, it was 10 years ahead of the game: the PC has merely evolved

[Argo]

Yes.  :afro:


I am in one of those moods this week.

See you next week! Hope you are in a better mood then.
Don't forget to review the posting guidelines.   :rtfm:

[amigaksi]

@ amigaksi


I use Win7 x64. and i run VMWare. and i run Win98se. and play diablo, quite well i must say. I also run dosbox. in win7 X64. and play old 16bit dos games, and it works quite well.
I have not tried UAE yet. but i bet ya a dollar it works just fine. Then i can play most amiga games on my win7 x64 install.

Looks like VMWare also requires installing the older OS as well as VMWare itself which doesn't look like freeware.

Partition hard drives afterwards?
Exactly what do you mean by that?
I run the same disks with the same partitions as i did with xp. (some disks even W2K) I have just reformatted them with an updated version of ntfs, or converted them on the fly.

I need to run 16-bit and 32-bit software that works on Windows 3.x like Photoshop and most of my stuff.  Windows 98SE and XP run my software fine but not 64-bit Windows.  One proposed solutions were partition the hard drive, but that also still requires installing/buying Windows 3.x OS and head-ache repartitioning for customers that may not be so technically inclined.  They basically went and bought a new computer and told me my software no longer works.  Unfortunately, they bought a machine with a 64-bit OS.

Is it the OSs fault that some retailers don't include the OS disks?

What compatibillity has been dropped?
I still use old software. Name some REALLY usefull old software that don't work under win7 x64.

Yes, it's the OS's fault that there was no solution given to run old software that doesn't need any upgrade or newer OS features to run with full functionality.  The fact of the matter is, when I benchmark my software on Windows 98SE w/64MB and Windows XP w/1GB RAM, it runs better on Windows 98SE.

The certification referred to in previous post is certification of drivers. If someone want to have certified drivers, they must make both 32 and 64bit drivers for their hardware. Uncertified drivers still works, though.

Yeah, most uncertified drivers like belkin WIFI still work but those dialog boxes sure try to create doubt in people's minds with messages like: "WARNING: Press continue to install, but if your hard drive crashes or monitor blows up, don't tell us."

[amigaksi]

This is so true.

I guess it's easier to say "we don't need it" than "you're right, it would be great, but we don't have it now, that's too bad". Seems like some people still live in 1989, thinking the Amiga is still cutting edge in a lot of areas... Problem is it's 2010, and it's lagging in pretty much every areas instead.

Not true for me in 1989.  I had an Atari 800, Amiga 500, and AT&T 286 w/LAN card connecting to my college VAX (sort of like internet).  Each one had their uniqueness-- the math processing (microcap?) and communications were better on the 286 as it had a math coprocessor, the Amiga 500 had the unique Copper (amongst other things), and the Atari 800 had fast booting cartridges and programmable text/gr. modes in BASIC.  

Now the PC has progressed a lot, but nonetheless some aspects of the older machines remain unique.  Just like a parrot is inferior to a human yet has some unique features like ability to fly and it's colorfulness.

[fishy_fiz]

In response to those droning on about lack of backwards compatibility of 64bit oses on modern hardware,... how is this different to *any* new hardware/software combo? Even the modern versions of amiga os arent completely backwards compatible with its existing software base. PS3/xb360/amiga/mac/pc,... all require a form of emulation to be completely compatible with the back catalogue.... time moves on and things change.

[Argo]

Not sure what all this is about.  I'm using a 2.8 GHz Dual Core running Windows 7 Pro 64 Bit. I was abit surprised, but Mechwarrior 4 runs just fine. That was released on November 24, 2000. Almost 11 years ago. No compatibility mode.

I just build a new computer for a friend this Spring to replace her 7 year old Dell. The new computer is slightly better than mine. Same OS. I installed all the software that was on her old computer. A good bit of it was from 1995 to 2000 release programs. All of it ran, no issues, no comparability mode.

[Boot_WB]

Theres plenty to contribute, you just think it all has to be delivered in a 5-page essay format complete with douche-tastic sounding phrases that you probably don't use in real life but do here because you have plenty of time to formulate everything.  

Mainly force of habit. Amiga forums are generally full of people from varying nationalities, which makes the use of slang phrases etc a barrier to communication.
Just for you, I've tried to extend this post to 5 pages

If you talk like that in real life, do you also prance around in robes and wave a scepter around and demand your subjects bring you crisps and whatnot?
[...]
You're too busy polishing your scepter and demanding tea from your servants to lrn2forum.
[...]
If you don't believe me, have your subjects draw up the private jet and come here in a month.  

Never been to Hull, have you mate?

Not everyones going to deliver statements and opinions in a high and mighty Tolstoy approach.  You tout intelligence.  Use it to comprehend this simple fact.

But... you weren't delivering statements, or even opinions, just bile & insults. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to proof-read prior to posting.

Everyone buys computer hardware.  You do, I do, the rest of the forum does.  Acting like you're above it all because you don't buy the latest stuff is pretty stupid of you.

Yes, but there's a difference between buying a new computer/component because it's needed (or wanted), and rushing out every couple of months to buy Teh l33test sh1t!1!!1

The consumerism comment was just meant as a half-joke/half-truth. Try to pick either half.

Aww whats the matter wittle baby?  Now YOU ran out of things to contribute so you have to resort to spewing ignorance?

Guilty as charged, I am ignorant of your personal circumstances and should not have commented in such a way: I unreservedly apologise.

Personally, I am not interested in gaming (at least, not in the currently available arenas which I have seen), but do not seek to disparage those who are. Nor, if I were, would I do it by putting on a baby voice (in written form). Jeez.

All of my friends preordered the game too.  If you read the rest of this thread, you'd see that I stated I am a gamer.  A pretty serious one, as is the rest of the group I game with.  Sounds like you are projecting, and butt-hurt that you have noone to game with so you fap to your Amiga since noone wants to interact with wannabes like you on games.

Err... no.
Haven't powered up my A4KT in around 12 months, pretty much since MorphOS was released on the Mac-mini. Before that it has lived in a box in my wardrobe for a couple of house-moves.

It's been many years since I saw a PC-game which has held my interest for more than an hour or two.

One of the reasons I've decided to sell my PS3 (amongst many) is that the gaming interface is shite (at least, for FPS's). Going back to a joystick control system (moving a cursor around the screen) after the responsive point'n'shoot of the Wiimote is just plain wrong for me.
Plus the annoyance.. it's like being on call all the time.
Plus its inability to deal with external USB drives properly, inability to multitask (at all), shit indexing system, inability to handle many media formats, poor networking capabilities, etc, etc, etc.
Basically, the PS3 ended up being pretty much only a media centre. A task to which it is entirely inadequate.

I decided that my MorphOS system will perform better as a media centre once AMC is released than my PS3 (for my purposes - I have no blu-ray/HD collection), and I won't miss the PS3 as a gaming platform.

That stupid little statement from you really reduced all of your pompous nonsense to nothing.  YOU DONE GOOFED SON.

You say this yet continue to post in the thread.  Don't talk the talk if you can't walk the walk.  Shut up and go diddle around in a new thread, or stay and cope with the madness.

Please enjoy your holiday from Amiga.org...

[jj]

Yes, it's the OS's fault that there was no solution given to run old software that doesn't need any upgrade or newer OS features to run with full functionality. The fact of the matter is, when I benchmark my software on Windows 98SE w/64MB and Windows XP w/1GB RAM, it runs better on Windows 98SE.

Well if you have win7 64bit pro.  And your CPU has hardware virtualisation then you can download XP mode for free which includes a copy of winXP
 
If you have more basic version or like me your CPU is pretty old (AMD64x2) and doesn't support hardware virtualisation then you can just use the free microsoft virtual pc 2009  and install a copy of your own xp disk.

[persia]

@amigaksi

What are you running that "run in XP" mode in Windows 7 won't handle?

[psxphill]

Yes, it's the OS's fault that there was no solution given to run old software that doesn't need any upgrade or newer OS features to run with full functionality. The fact of the matter is, when I benchmark my software on Windows 98SE w/64MB and Windows XP w/1GB RAM, it runs better on Windows 98SE.

16bit support in an x64 os is hard, because the processor can't easily switch between those modes. The only way to run it would be to use an emulator. Microsoft give you a free copy of Windows XP to run in an emulator on Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, and Ultimate.
 
I'm sure you'd love Microsoft to spend a load of money on supporting your application, but there is no justification for them to do so.
 
64 bit is better for a number of reasons. I use it wherever I can, unfortunately my netbook only supports 32bits.
 
Maybe it's about time you sold your customers an upgrade.

[loedown]

People seem to forget era and function.

Amiga was unique in its time and badly managed

PC is popular and badly driven

[pyrre]

Looks like VMWare also requires installing the older OS as well as VMWare itself which doesn't look like freeware.

Yes and no. you download VMWare server (i think it was...) and request a key from VMWare site... you install the software and run it. quite simple..
Though, the enterprise versions are quite expensive.
And BTW if you already have the old 98se install cd collecting dust. its nice to be able to use it again..

I need to run 16-bit and 32-bit software that works on Windows 3.x like Photoshop and most of my stuff.  Windows 98SE and XP run my software fine but not 64-bit Windows.  One proposed solutions were partition the hard drive, but that also still requires installing/buying Windows 3.x OS and head-ache repartitioning for customers that may not be so technically inclined.  They basically went and bought a new computer and told me my software no longer works.  Unfortunately, they bought a machine with a 64-bit OS.

I am puzzled by this. i dont understand where that comes from.
Out of curiosity i installed photoshop 5.5. the oldest photoshop i have.. been with me since 98se days. it work like a charm...
And i installed sonicfoudury vegas video 4.0 video editing suite. it works like a charm to. and it has been with me since 98se/W2K times...
I just cant understand what the problem is.... So far there is one thing i have been unable to get to work in my pc. that is my SCSI II controller. not because its incompatible. but because adaptec just ain't writing drivers for it to W7... (it does not work with 32Bit vista either)
And BTW partitioning the drives. do you really expect Win 3.x to work on modern hardware? Even 2K have problems with that. (mostly driver availability of modern motherboards). The answer is quite simple; virtualize it. Or even emulate it.. (dosbox)

Yes, it's the OS's fault that there was no solution given to run old software that doesn't need any upgrade or newer OS features to run with full functionality.  The fact of the matter is, when I benchmark my software on Windows 98SE w/64MB and Windows XP w/1GB RAM, it runs better on Windows 98SE.

1. No, it aint the OSs fault that retailers don't include the disks with the computer when purchasing it!
2. Compatibility can be achieved by selecting compatibility mode.
3. Benchmarks is just a figure... So far my newer PCs have graveled any W98se setup in any benchmark. (3D benchmarks like 3Dmark 99, 2k, 01....)
Rendering: Vegas video have increased performance at every step i have upgraded so far, even OS upgrades.
That goes for working with photoshop as well... I would like to see you edit a RAW format 18mp image from your canon eos... in win 3.11 with a P90 and 16mb ram... i would pay to see that.. the image is 30MB in size...
4. What software are you talking about? photoshop is the only software you have mentioned so far... give me examples so i can compare with my figures..

Yeah, most uncertified drivers like belkin WIFI still work but those dialog boxes sure try to create doubt in people's minds with messages like: "WARNING: Press continue to install, but if your hard drive crashes or monitor blows up, don't tell us."

The warning message actually serve a purpose.. false written drivers have existed...(from 3rd party writers...).
It just tells you to be aware of what you are doing. if you are in doubt, ask a friend with computer knowledge, or call tech support..