Amiga vs PC

[runequester]

I've made the case for open source alternatives to friends that have nothing but pain with Windows day after day. Yet, despite not actually doing anything with their machines that really needs it, they seem unduly resistant to the idea. I guess they have a masochistic streak
 
Anyway, back on topic, we all know the Amiga was better back when it actually counted; in the days of genuine home computing. That era has gone. People may actually do more stuff with their computers nowadays, but precious little of it is what I'd call computing. Farting about on farcebook and the like seems to be what it has all come down to for many people today.

Out of curiosity,what do you consider "computing" ?
 
Ive been meaning to open some sort of thread about this, but I guess this is as good as any.

[stefcep2]

I take it you haven't seen some of the recent developments in lightwave 10? It has a realtime "Viewport Preview Render" mode. For some examples, see here.

I have a copy of Lightwave 9, and have done a few renders with it, don't use it much though, on an AMD x2 5000 ( I know).  Its render speed is dog slow, certainly compared Cinema 4D.  Not sure how well this V10 real time render works-or the hardware you need-but unless they've worked a minor miracle, I wouldn't believe everything you read in the glossy brochure.

How long do you think it would take an A4000 based toaster to render this?

i don't know but the wall, ceiling, and floor are simple, with repeating tile maps/bump maps so not that long.  And the tubing is simple relflective color map, not even texture. The car's reflective paint  would take more time though.  But if I could screamernet 4096 A4000's...

Of course, there probably wouldn't be a lightwave 10 without the Amiga trailblazing the earliest versions

[fishy_fiz]

Each to thier own, and it's sort of off topic, but has been mentioned a few times within the thread..... anyway, I just wanted to disagree about linux being more fun and/or having more "soul" than Windows. Linux feels more mechanical and personality barren than any other OS Ive used.... having said that Ive only used Ubuntu (yuck), Madriva (my fav. from what Ive tried), and Fedora Core as far as Linuxes go. Not to say it's not effective, I just find it completely bereft of any sort of personality. Windows (the OS itself, has always been software I enjoy on Windows) for me started being fun once I started playing with Nlite.... I currently have XP Pro + SP3 installed and its roughly 150meg total,... Windows, program files folder, etc, while retaining everything needed (yet to find software that doesnt work (including recent games)).... was quite fun to see how much it can be stripped without losing functionality, sort of the opposite to OS3.x (the end results of enhancing os3.x to a XP+SP3 level of usability arent too dissimilar in size). System now boots in literally 5 seconds after bios post.... makes a very nice host for a dedicated emultor machines/media centre/etc.

[runequester]

Each to thier own, and it's sort of off topic, but has been mentioned a few times within the thread..... anyway, I just wanted to disagree about linux being more fun and/or having more "soul" than Windows. Linux feels more mechanical and personality barren than any other OS Ive used.... having said that Ive only used Ubuntu (yuck), Madriva (my fav. from what Ive tried), and Fedora Core as far as Linuxes go. Not to say it's not effective, I just find it completely bereft of any sort of personality. Windows (the OS itself, has always been software I enjoy on Windows) for me started being fun once I started playing with Nlite.... I currently have XP Pro + SP3 installed and its roughly 150meg total,... Windows, program files folder, etc, while retaining everything needed (yet to find software that doesnt work (including recent games)).... was quite fun to see how much it can be stripped without losing functionality, sort of the opposite to OS3.x (the end results of enhancing os3.x to a XP+SP3 level of usability arent too dissimilar in size). System now boots in literally 5 seconds after bios post.... makes a very host for a dedicated emultor machines/media centre/etc.

heck, Damn Small Linux is 50 megs including apps.
I guess :soul: is dependent on what you want from it and what you put in. Linux I can mess with, nothings off limits, and I am not borrowing the software or having to agree to a bunch of limitations on what I can do.
That gives it soul to me.
 
I know a few people who swear by win2K so obviously it has soul to them.
 
As a few people has alluded to, its all about what makes it tick for you

[B00tDisk]

Out of curiosity,what do you consider "computing" ?
 
Ive been meaning to open some sort of thread about this, but I guess this is as good as any.

Apparently "computing" meant fucking around with your computer to make it do things.

[amigaksi]

When you say it "won't run", you are giving the false impression that it "can't run". It doesn't do it out of the box since including windows 3.1 with it would get the authors nailed up in Ballmer's trophy room quicker than you could say "developers" four times.

Yeah, legality is one reason.  At least you understood it better than Bootdisk.  I wrote: "Similarly, DOSBOX runs DOS stuff fine but it won't run Windows 3.x stuff. I.e., it doesn't have the required windows files."  I can say "Windows 3.1 doesn't run Windows '95 stuff" but you can install Win32S and a few other files and force it to run Windows '95 stuff, but my statement still remains correct.

However, you can install windows 3.x on DosBOX, provided you have a copy of it that is still readable after all these years

DOSBOX does run sound blaster and VGA stuff without requiring installation of any drivers-- it's built-in so if it had the "Win" command somehow virtualized in it, I would agree it runs Windows 3.x stuff.  And as far as installing Windows 3.x, add to the problem of legality that people asking me for 64-bit version of my software don't have a floppy drive and I'm also writing to I/O ports.

Why anybody would want to, of course, is another matter.

I haven't upgraded all of my software to pure 32-bit or 64-bit; I wrote the software so it starts up in 16-bit mode and switches to 32-bit mode once it's running.  That way back when Windows 3.x was popular, I was able to use 32-bit ASM and it didn't gain anything by running under Windows '98SE/XP.  But now, 64-bit OS refuses to run it.  There's no way I can tell the customer "DOSBOX will run the software."

[amigaksi]

YES.

YES IT CAN.

Saying "YES IT CAN" doesn't change reality nor refute my point.  See my previous reply (post #215).

DOSBOX doesn't run Windows 3.x stuff.   Now that I think about it, it may not even run all DOS software properly-- haven't really extensively tested it.

[amigadave]

@stefcep2,

You don't have to believe the "glossy brochure", just go find one of the many videos of the Lightwave10 demos to see it in action yourself.

As for all this talk about the "soul" of the Amiga (it is really silly), the only soul the Amiga has is what is put into it by the person handling the mouse and keyboard (or joystick if you like).  Amiga computers and its 1.3 to 3.1, or 3.9 OS are fantastic for their time and remarkable in that they are still used today by many people for what ever reason, but they can't be seriously compared to modern hardware and OSes because they lack so much that has been created over the last 15 to 20 years.

Enjoy Amiga hardware and the OS for what it was and still is and don't try to make it into anything else.  I have had as many as 25 Amiga computers at one time, so count me as one of the faithful fans, but it does not diminish my ability to realize and appreciate the strengths and uses of other hardware, software and OSes.  I don't have to run down Windows, (which I really don't care for much) or MacOSX, or Linux, just to justify why I like to use Amiga computers and its OS.

Anyone trying to convince another person which hardware or OS they should use solely on its merits is wasting their time, because everyone is going to use what they prefer, no matter what anyone else says to them.

[Franko]

It's became quite apparent from this thread, that a lot of the folk posting in it are obviously too young to understand or so lost in their own little world of trying to convince themselves that, they are right and everybody else is wrong or are even able to comprehend just what the true meaning and whole experience using a home computer should really mean.

It's nothing to do with quoting the best specs you can google, or trying to make yourself look smart and clever by saying X chip can do this and Y board can do that or you'd need a quadzillion transistors running at X amount of Mhz to make this do that.

If that's your idea of fun and enjoyment from using a home computer, then my friend sadly you haven't even lived.

If you care to read my blog you will find my last word on this subject, its not a putdown of anyones opinions or choice, it's merely an observation and an opinion on what I feel about something that a whole generation of computer users has missed out on.

My Blog- Amiga Vs PC... A Final Thought
http://www.amiga.org/forums/blog.php?b=203

Cheers :drink:

Franko

[save2600]

Out of curiosity,what do you consider "computing" ?
 

Karlos summarized it perfectly: "farting around farcebook" *is* most peoples definition of "computing" today. Read my other posts as to what defines the internet "experience" for further clarification.

Todays computing is much like owning the fastest car on the Autobahn. Doesn't matter how "fast" you think you're going since you're still going nowhere fast. :laughing:

[ElPolloDiabl]

It's became quite apparent from this thread, that a lot of the folk posting in it are obviously too young to understand or so lost in their own little world of trying to convince themselves that, they are right and everybody else is wrong or are even able to comprehend just what the true meaning and whole experience using a home computer should really mean.

It's nothing to do with quoting the best specs you can google, or trying to make yourself look smart and clever by saying X chip can do this and Y board can do that or you'd need a quadzillion transistors running at X amount of Mhz to make this do that.

If that's your idea of fun and enjoyment from using a home computer, then my friend sadly you haven't even lived.

Yeah I think everyone is so obsessed with speed and new features they forget about backward compatibility. If your old software simply won't run on your latest system how do you know you're really going faster? Backwards compatibility is worth paying for.

[fishy_fiz]

It's became quite apparent from this thread, that a lot of the folk posting in it are obviously too young to understand or so lost in their own little world of trying to convince themselves that, they are right and everybody else is wrong or are even able to comprehend just what the true meaning and whole experience using a home computer should really mean.

It's nothing to do with quoting the best specs you can google, or trying to make yourself look smart and clever by saying X chip can do this and Y board can do that or you'd need a quadzillion transistors running at X amount of Mhz to make this do that.

If that's your idea of fun and enjoyment from using a home computer, then my friend sadly you haven't even lived.

If you care to read my blog you will find my last word on this subject, its not a putdown of anyones opinions or choice, it's merely an observation and an opinion on what I feel about something that a whole generation of computer users has missed out on.

My Blog- Amiga Vs PC... A Final Thought
http://www.amiga.org/forums/blog.php?b=203

Cheers :drink:

Franko

While I agree with the crux of your post, do you not see the hypocricy in what you write ?  On one hand youre saying a person should enjoy whatever it is they like about computers, and in the same breath are telling people that if they enjoy computers for "X" reason theyre not living. Some people are interested in the technological side of computers, talk of speed, etc. isn't always a big dick contest. I started my computer hobby in the late 70's / early 80's and it's been a fun ride. While some aspects of yesteryears computers are great the same can be said of todays machines, it's all down to the user as to what they enjoy. So many people seem stuck on one or the other, why the heck not both ?

[persia]

When the Amiga first came out, home computers were something special, you were almost a Geek just by having one in your home.  Print quality of most dot matrix printers was not up to typewriter (dad, what's a typewriter?).  Everything was expensive in terms of hours worked.  The current minimum wage A$569.90 (€397.70/£325.81/US$510.90) would have been an executive wage back then.  Yet the price of computers has come down.  In terms of hours wored computers have never been cheaper.

Today everyone has a computer in their home, kids have them in school.  Libraries have become computer stations that also have books.  It's a different world.  People don't tinker anymore, in fact on iPhones, iPads, iPods and to a lesser extent Android devices, they aren't allowed to.

[IslDreamer]

So many people seem stuck on one or the other, why the heck not both ?

Quoted for agreement! I've never stopped loving my Amigas, but I'm not about to forego enjoyment of all that the latest tech has to offer.

[Jakodemus]

DOSBOX doesn't run Windows 3.x stuff.   Now that I think about it, it may not even run all DOS software properly-- haven't really extensively tested it.

http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=9405

Here's a guide for you to run win3.1 in dosbox. Happy now?

[B00tDisk]

Saying "YES IT CAN" doesn't change reality nor refute my point.  See my previous reply (post #215).

DOSBOX doesn't run Windows 3.x stuff.   Now that I think about it, it may not even run all DOS software properly-- haven't really extensively tested it.

jesus christ man yes it does, I've run Fleet Defender and Pirates! Gold in 3.1 under DOSBox.