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Offline Arkhan

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Re: Amiga vs PC
« Reply #119 on: August 13, 2010, 02:36:43 PM »
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;574591
And this comment is about as reliable as his one stating a 5bit 15khz sample chip produces better quality than an 8bit 48khz sample chip...........and then argue it on the basis of a CD-ROM mastered soundtrack using studio hardware not the actual soundchip  lol classic comments from little arkhan.
Wow, you're still gripping onto that whole argument that you barely understood at the time?

I argued the PCE soundchip and the PCE CD audio as two separate points.   It's not a sampling chip.  It's a WSG.  It just happens to be able to sample on each channel also (6 channels!).  The CD audio argument is that it surpasses everything since it can have music made up of sound from whatever in the piss you want.  Studio mastered audio on a CD based game is going to beat the piss out of any sound chip. Mix Amiga, Atari, a kazoo, and a friggin roland from 2010.  Who cares.  It can do it all.  You do know what a CD is right? It's those shiny discs you stare at and drool as the light reflects off the bottoms?

I also never said it's (the WSG) is better quality.  I said it sounds better and works better for games.  There is a reason why arcade machines used FM/PSG/WSG instead of sampling a majority of the time.   It fits and is much smoother for the type of game in question.  Kind of like how if you were to have a live band for the soundtrack of a NES game.... it wouldn't fit at all.  Having the music and sfx blend properly is very important in games.

I know you're sort of dopey and don't really get it so I will just leave it at that.
 
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1 IE was always iffy as hell compared to the likes of Netscape at the time, which is what most people used simply because IE was really that slow and buggy and rendered pages incorrectly at that time. As any web designer knows, you finish your site, then modify it so IE can render it in an identical fashion to how it already renders ;)
Thats nice.  Doesn't change the fact that iBrowse loads pages up kind of slow and jerky, and a comparable win95 machine doesn't have the same dilemma.  

Also, now that you mention it, Netscape works better too.  Thats two browsers.  

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2 Win95 had a notoriously famous world wide bug of a memory map as solid as a leaky old bucket when it comes to web browsing/emailing activities lol.
man, nothing gets past the AMIGA_NUT.

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3 There's the Win95 GDI resource issue to compound that socket related leakage into oblivion problem with the effects of gradually losing GDI memory resource due to using graphically intense programs (for 1995 that is) like web browsers all day long. Result = crash city/loss of OS functionality = frequent reboots.
Hmm.  Don't recall that problem.  then again I was like 9 at the time.  My computer didn't crash alot back then, and doesn't now.  

It only crashed when we got AOL.  

Quote
So it turns out you have no experience of how 'good' IE was originally in that time frame, and no awareness of two of the biggest reasons corporations found Win95 nothing but a toy OS for business applications lol surprise NOT.
Yet Win95 and then 98, and beyond, are what most corporations used and still use.  Maybe you have no experience with what the real world is doing past 1993.

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Maybe it's time we ALL had a poll vote to decide if Arkhan should be banned, clearly the moderators here are going for quantity rather than quality as far as member numbers go on Amiga.org haha
Big words from the flid whose opening argument here was a direct attack, and who bounces from computer scene to computer scene being fanboy of said computer until he's gone so r-tard that he has to leave.  Your problem is you have tunnel vision love for the computer the forum you are currently hamfisting on is about.  You can't see past it being the best thing since sliced bread because you just want approval.

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As usual bullshit off-topic trolling has actually derailed an interesting thread, the simple facts are....
Dumbass, go read the title of the thread.  In fact, here let me help you since you will probably go ADD on the way to reading it and start spewing more idiocy:
 AMIGA vs PC.  

I don't see how discussing the pros/cons of a PC is off topic in a thread where PC IS IN THE FRIGGING TITLE.    As usual, hamfisted fliddery has made you look like the forum tard. You know, sort of like your opening comment in this post.  What is on topic about insulting me and bringing up a thread thats been done for awhile now?  Good job.  Loosen the chin strap on your helmet. It's cutting off the circulation to what little brain you have left.

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A1000 vs 8086/80186 PC XT etc  = slamdunk to A1000 on every possible aspect.
I should hope so considering an A1000 is newer by some years.

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A1200/4000 vs 386SX/486DX ISA PC = grey area of swings and roundabouts.
Oh, but I thought it was clear that the Amiga was superior no matter what.  Now you change your stance to a "maybe", depending on how you have everything configured?  Simpleton.

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Comparing today's PCs with souped up A1200/A4000s is about as useful as comparing an IBM XT with 128k ram and Hercules graphics card and PC speaker audio to a 512k A1000.
So you're saying this whole thread is useless?  Try leaving then.  You've contributed nothing but nonsense, as per the AMIGA_NUT standard.


LITTLE ARKHAN, OVER AND OUT.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 02:42:38 PM by Arkhan »
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Offline Franko

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Re: Amiga vs PC
« Reply #120 on: August 13, 2010, 02:47:50 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;574612
I'm guessing "Amigan" has very different connotations for us.

I'm a long time Amiga User. Currently my Amiga of choice is UAE. In the future it may well be a minimigAGA. I post here because I have a good few (IRL and online) friends who share similar interests to me.

An Amigan to me is simply another name for BAF. The term first started becoming fashionable around the time of the exodus.

Other synonyms include: Chump, sucker, retard, fraudster worshipper, cultie.


Having been around long before the exodus (helped an old chap build a little boat he was making, Noah I think he was called...) and long before it was fashionable to be fashionable, Id be more than happy to be associated with those synonyms. :)

(except the BAF one, never been a member of the Belgian Air Force...) :(

At least back then we all used the same computer, the Abacus it was called, crappy gfx but did it's job well, and still runs the same OS even after some 4000 odd years. :biglaugh:
 

Offline persia

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Re: Amiga vs PC
« Reply #121 on: August 13, 2010, 03:19:22 PM »
Everything looks better or worse in memory than it really was....

Quote from: Amiga_Nut;574591


And this comment is about as reliable as his one stating a 5bit 15khz sample chip produces better quality than an 8bit 48khz sample chip...........and then argue it on the basis of a CD-ROM mastered soundtrack using studio hardware not the actual soundchip  lol classic comments from little arkhan.
 
1 IE was always iffy as hell compared to the likes of Netscape at the time, which is what most people used simply because IE was really that slow and buggy and rendered pages incorrectly at that time. As any web designer knows, you finish your site, then modify it so IE can render it in an identical fashion to how it already renders ;)

2 Win95 had a notoriously famous world wide bug of a memory map as solid as a leaky old bucket when it comes to web browsing/emailing activities lol.

3 There's the Win95 GDI resource issue to compound that socket related leakage into oblivion problem with the effects of gradually losing GDI memory resource due to using graphically intense programs (for 1995 that is) like web browsers all day long. Result = crash city/loss of OS functionality = frequent reboots.

So it turns out you have no experience of how 'good' IE was originally in that time frame, and no awareness of two of the biggest reasons corporations found Win95 nothing but a toy OS for business applications lol surprise NOT.

Maybe it's time we ALL had a poll vote to decide if Arkhan should be banned, clearly the moderators here are going for quantity rather than quality as far as member numbers go on Amiga.org haha

As usual bullshit off-topic trolling has actually derailed an interesting thread, the simple facts are....

A1000 vs 8086/80186 PC XT etc  = slamdunk to A1000 on every possible aspect.
A1200/4000 vs 386SX/486DX ISA PC = grey area of swings and roundabouts.
£1500+ x1000 vs i7 latest gen PC = I think even here we've all seen how that went lol

Comparing today's PCs with souped up A1200/A4000s is about as useful as comparing an IBM XT with 128k ram and Hercules graphics card and PC speaker audio to a 512k A1000.

Now had you pointed out that something like an A500/2000 etc didn't have a serial port capable of utilising a 33.6/56k modem unlike your average early 90s PC.............

(above 3 examples compared on like for like timescales, PC OS = DOS+Windows of the time and price is similar for both items)
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Offline stefcep2

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Re: Amiga vs PC
« Reply #122 on: August 13, 2010, 03:29:46 PM »
@ Leander

The problem I have in believing just how great IE on an 8 meg 486 and Win 3.1 ran is that at the time virtually everyone used Netscape,and even payed to do so.  None of the PC magazines recommended it, and everyone I knew agree IE4 was shit.  Evryone at the time was running Win 95 at least a well.  Secondly I did have a 200 mhz 603e power mac with 32 mb ram and both  IE4 and Netscape communicator ran like a  three-legged dog on that machine under Mac OS 8.  I honestly can't see how IE 4 under 3.11 and 486 could have run as well as you say it did.

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would bring the Amiga to its knees with a native browser.

If you say so.  A graphics card made all the difference to me.

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E5 was so far ahead of the game that it got to the stage that I would only browse the web on the Amiga using shapeshifter running MacOS 7.1 with IE5 installed. There was absolutely nothing on the Amiga that could match it for compatibility on the web.

Read that again: I could emulate a Mac on my Amiga and get better, faster, more compatible results than I could natively.

IE5 on the same hardware under emulation suffered far less slowdown and got me a whole hell of a lot further

You could not have run Win 95 under emulation without it looking like a slideshow, so i'm assuming you emulated a Mac on your Amiga.  The thing is I spent an eternity on PPC cyberstorm 68060/604e trying Fusion ppc to boot PPC MacOS 7.6 and 8.0 and NEVER got past the bomb screen.  You do know that IE 5 was PPC MacOs 7.6+ only, right?  So 68K 7.1 would not have done.  So I'd like to know how, exactly, you got a PPC IE5 to run in your Amiga under emulation?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 03:35:52 PM by stefcep2 »
 

Offline the_leander

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Re: Amiga vs PC
« Reply #123 on: August 13, 2010, 03:55:52 PM »
Quote from: stefcep2;574332

An A1200 running at 14 mhz and 8 mb fast ram


Ok, so basically a setup identical to my CD32...

Quote from: stefcep2;574332

 could fit a TCP stack,


That's about 2 megs right there.

Quote from: stefcep2;574332

 a browser, an email client, newsreader, an FTP client


Unless you're talking Lynx, Pine and the text based ftp client that shipped with MiamiDX, you're going to struggle to have more than the first item on your list.

The latter three probably, assuming you were using a version of YAM that only leaked ram slowly.

Quote from: stefcep2;574332

, IM,


With MDX I could run AmIRC and Jabber side by side quite comfortably.

But that'd be about it. Much of anything else and you'd be knocking on the door of the ram limit.

Take a guess what happens when you do.

Quote from: stefcep2;574332

 a paint package like Dpaint, a word processor


Sure you could. Right up until you started to mess with your paint package much, especially if you were running a high res.

Quote from: stefcep2;574332

and even do a 3D render in the background )


Horseapples you could. Unless you were planning on rendering the size of a postage stamp.

Rendering hammered the ever loving crap out of the Amiga. Even assuming your 8meg limit was enough for your render... On an 020? Are you daft?

By the time any such render finished, chances are Duke Nukem Forever would have been ported to Amiga!

Quote from: stefcep2;574332
especially if you had an FPU, play music/mods,


Mods would be all you could do.

Quote from: stefcep2;574332
a file manager like Dopus on top of a GUI OS-with god knows how many little commodities running in the background and the thing was still responsive to the user.  I can't imagine any x86 platform doing that.


As someone who actually used such a setup for a great deal of time, I am flat out telling you you are talking utter bollocks.

There are items on that list that alone could nom up 8Meg without so much as blinking. As to the rest, I'm sorry, but no.

A few at a time, maybe, a few more if you really played around and experimented to push your memory use right up to the red-line.

But the closer you get to the limit, the more likely you are to find out to your cost that one or more of your applications (web apps especially) leaked ram thanks to MUI and blam!

Reboot time.

Where is your "never happened to me" now?

Quote from: stefcep2;574332

I'm not sure if  that advantage in the efficient use of hardware resources was there by design or as a consequence of little hardware development since Commodores demise, nor if that would have continued if AmigaOS survived today.


Amiga was efficient.

But not that efficient.

Quote from: stefcep2;574332

So for me, Amiga was all about efficiency, elegance and making me feel that the system obeyed me, and for me that made up for the lack of the brute power of a PC.


Given the above claims, I  think you might want to talk to your doctor about changing your prescription.

Or selling it on the black market, because that is some serious stuff!
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Offline Arkhan

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Re: Amiga vs PC
« Reply #124 on: August 13, 2010, 04:02:43 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;574623

By the time any such render finished, chances are Duke Nukem Forever would have been ported to Amiga!


quote of the year!
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Offline Franko

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Re: Amiga vs PC
« Reply #125 on: August 13, 2010, 04:11:28 PM »
And the award for most quotes posted in a post, goes to... :D
 

Offline the_leander

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Re: Amiga vs PC
« Reply #126 on: August 13, 2010, 04:17:37 PM »
Quote from: stefcep2;574620
@ Leander

The problem I have in believing just how great IE on an 8 meg 486 and Win 3.1 ran is that at the time virtually everyone used Netscape,and even payed to do so.  None of the PC magazines recommended it, and everyone I knew agree IE4 was shit.  


There you go again, trying to put words in my mouth. WTF is up with you?

I didn't say it wasn't a complete dogs dinner.

What I said was: It was more compatible than anything on the Amiga. Using shapeshifter I could, for instance, access my account online without the browser shitting itself over some javascript....

Which is entirely true.

Quote from: stefcep2;574332

Words


And?



Quote from: stefcep2;574332


You could not have run Win 95 under emulation without it looking like a slideshow, so i'm assuming you emulated a Mac on your Amiga.


Obviously, since I never once mentioned emulating a PC.


Quote from: stefcep2;574332

 The thing is I spent an eternity on PPC cyberstorm 68060/604e trying Fusion ppc to boot PPC MacOS 7.6 and 8.0 and NEVER got past the bomb screen.  


Compared to the 68k versions of both shapeshifter and fusion, the ppc version was an utter PITA. Incredibly fickle about the versions of macOS it would run on my mates A4k. I think I must have tried 4 or 5 different releases before I got one to play ball (many were copies that shipped with machines rather than a generic OEM copy).

I think the thing that annoyed me the most about it was, that after a week of trying to get it to work and then getting it to work... My mate decided he didn't much care for I think it was 7.6 and deleted the setup.

Have to say though of the two 68k emus, shapeshifter was by far the easiest to get going, even if you were limited to IE4.

Which was still miles ahead of anything on the Amiga.

Quote from: stefcep2;574332

So I'd like to know how, exactly, you got a PPC IE5 to run in your Amiga under emulation?


The power of the typo.

It should have read:
Quote
IE5 was so far ahead of the game that it got to the stage that I would only browse the web on the Amiga using shapeshifter running MacOS 7.1 with IE4 installed. There was absolutely nothing on the Amiga that could match it for compatibility on the web.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 04:32:54 PM by the_leander »
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Offline the_leander

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Re: Amiga vs PC
« Reply #127 on: August 13, 2010, 04:22:27 PM »
Quote from: Franko;574626
And the award for most quotes posted in a post, goes to... :D


Meh, a hangup from Usenet.

Top-posting aught to be a hanging offence :p
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Offline runequester

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Re: Amiga vs PC
« Reply #128 on: August 13, 2010, 06:03:06 PM »
So about that Atari ST ?
 

Offline tone007

Re: Amiga vs PC
« Reply #129 on: August 13, 2010, 06:07:17 PM »
Quote from: runequester;574636
So about that Atari ST ?


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Offline halvliter'n

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Re: Amiga vs PC
« Reply #130 on: August 13, 2010, 06:20:44 PM »
AMIGA RULES!! People who say otherwise have Never tried AmigaOS and Workbench! Windows is crap compared!
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Offline runequester

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Re: Amiga vs PC
« Reply #131 on: August 13, 2010, 06:23:04 PM »
Quote from: tone007;574637

I love that poster, thanks :)

At least we'd be comparing reasonably comparable technology.

People talking about IE4 or 5 and comparing it to the amiga are doing the usual "lets take stuff made years later and compare it to a computer from 1992"


For edification, this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Internet_Explorer_2.PNG is IE2, which came out in November 1995.
The original version came out a bit earlier that year, according to wikipedia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZixhLSooH8
this gentleman has a video of browsing the web on windows 3.1, using a 486 though using a later browser maybe ?
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Amiga vs PC
« Reply #132 on: August 13, 2010, 06:34:59 PM »
Quote from: runequester;574640
I love that poster, thanks :)

At least we'd be comparing reasonably comparable technology.

People talking about IE4 or 5 and comparing it to the amiga are doing the usual "lets take stuff made years later and compare it to a computer from 1992"


For edification, this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Internet_Explorer_2.PNG is IE2, which came out in November 1995.
The original version came out a bit earlier that year, according to wikipedia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZixhLSooH8
this gentleman has a video of browsing the web on windows 3.1, using a 486 though using a later browser maybe ?

Ahem, iBrowse was released around 1996. If you want to compare things properly (in a timeframe when amiga machines were still relatively new and on sale), then you can compare AMosaic (released around the end of 93) with either Mosaic itself or Netscape which appeared around the last quarter of 94.
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Offline the_leander

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Re: Amiga vs PC
« Reply #133 on: August 13, 2010, 06:37:16 PM »
Quote from: runequester;574640

People talking about IE4 or 5 and comparing it to the amiga are doing the usual "lets take stuff made years later and compare it to a computer from 1992"


Not so. The hardware and software is of a similar vintage - 040 vs 486 MacOS 7.x and Windows 3.x

With regard the browsers, heh, no.

IE4 was released in 1997, IE5 in 2000

Voyager, Aweb and Ibrowse were all still being actively developed within this time frame. None of them came close in terms of capabilities to either IE or Netscape.

IE4 running on Shapeshifter offered a far more useful experience than running any of the contemporary native browsers within that time.

This is a like for like comparison.
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Offline runequester

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Re: Amiga vs PC
« Reply #134 from previous page: August 13, 2010, 06:43:12 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;574641
Ahem, iBrowse was released around 1996. If you want to compare things properly (in a timeframe when amiga machines were still relatively new and on sale), then you can compare AMosaic (released around the end of 93) with either Mosaic itself or Netscape which appeared around the last quarter of 94.


Unable to find any videos of Amosaic at a first glance.

But hey, here's a dude using ibrowse on a 1200 with no processor card :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9s5IsXl8f4&feature=related
Workable it looks like, but pretty gruelling.