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Author Topic: In search for info on PPC cpus  (Read 6419 times)

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Offline Hammer

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Re: In search for info on PPC cpus
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2003, 12:01:47 AM »
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Still the UK at the end of the day!

It’s not much different to Euro Zone i.e. one common currency, one central bank, multiple parliaments** and a unified European parliament.

**National parliaments reduced as state parliaments(in effect).

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I'm talking about the cost aspect they're claiming, not the Wizard hell that is Windows!

You have not offer debunking papers in that regard.

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Obviously they must, or they wouldn't raise such a stink about it, now would they?!

There’s a level “marketing” before it comes to “misleading conduct”. Apple’s advertisement is too exposed in their claims of “Worlds Fastest PC” since it loses in some of the benchmarks in the older systems.  
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Offline bloodline

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Re: In search for info on PPC cpus
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2003, 12:06:38 AM »
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Hi,

next sunday me and a friend of mine will attend a Linux fair in my city. We're going to show an AmigaOne running Debian, it will be an opportunity to show off the motherboard as an alternative to x86 ones for Linuxes. I'm in search for any type of documentation about advantages of ppc type cpus over x86, as many people will certainly ask us why, for a Linux user, a PPC would be a "better" choice.
So far I've only found the recent article on OsNews, which is far from being objective IMHO. There is the heating advantage, but for others? What about the following:

- the evolution path, how does it compare against the newer 64 bit cpus from Intel and AMD? Is IBM commited in continuing the research and development?
- has ppc any advantage when used in multiprocessor machines? Some native support for this?
- how do the A1's ram and cpu buses compare against modern PCs?
- I've read that most of the next generation consoles will have a PPC, is this true? If so, will this help reducing the prices of ppc machines?

Thanks in advance for your help!
Varthall
 


That's a actually a really good question.

My next computer purchace will either be an Athlon64 or a PPC970+ CPU...

Frankly in terms of performance/architecture/etc... I don't think there's much in them, but at the moment I'm very much leaning towards the Athlon64... For one simple reason "Bang Per Buck".

I think the PPC biggest advantage is maybe heat output... that said the Athlon64 only has around 60Watts output, even though AMD say designers should allows for 80Watts... I expect this will allow for significant ramping in terms of clock speed of the A64.
But maybe the biggest advantage the PPC has is die size, which I believe is smaller than the A64.

If IBM can get the price of the G5 down (it's possible/likely use in future games consoles should help that) then it wil be a serious contender in the desktop market.

Though, who knows what AMD have in store with their K9 architecture... which threatens to be rather quick...

Offline Hammer

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Re: In search for info on PPC cpus
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2003, 12:07:52 AM »
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AmigaMac wrote:
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It’s a similar app vs similar app.


If they're going to do such, they might as well have run Adobe Premiere -vs- Apple's Final Cut Pro.  Premiere is a dead product as far as the Mac is concerned.

Note that Adobe Premiere is not optimised on AMD64 i.e. needs Windows XP AMD64 Edition(currently in beta stage).

Both systems are running on legacy modes.
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Offline crystall

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Re: In search for info on PPC cpus
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2003, 12:16:51 AM »
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Note that Adobe Premiere is not optimised on AMD64 i.e. needs Windows XP AMD64 Edition(currently in beta stage).

Both systems are running on legacy modes.


Actually the Mac has another problem, Première is running under Classic mode so they are basically benchmarking a discontinued app on a discontinued OS hosted on another OS. This said nobody will ever try a Première vs Final Cut Pro comparison simply because from a performance and feature set point of view FCP slaughters Première. That's why Adobe killed it, nobody would buy it anymore on the Mac platform. Unfortunately the page with the tests on Jet3D from Craig Hunter is down, it was a nice show off both for AltiVec and PowerPC in general in FP intensive apps.
 

Offline AmigaMac

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Re: In search for info on PPC cpus
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2003, 12:17:11 AM »
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Note that Adobe Premiere is not optimised on AMD64 i.e. needs Windows XP AMD64 Edition(currently in beta stage).

Both systems are running on legacy modes.


Yeah but they both  can run 32-bit mode, so just run a benchmark with FCP -vs- Premiere -vs- Avid Express (on both systems) to make it more fun  :-D
 

Offline Hammer

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Re: In search for info on PPC cpus
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2003, 12:27:43 AM »
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AmigaMac wrote:
Quote

Note that Adobe Premiere is not optimised on AMD64 i.e. needs Windows XP AMD64 Edition(currently in beta stage).

Both systems are running on legacy modes.


Yeah but they both  can run 32-bit mode, so just run a benchmark with FCP -vs- Premiere -vs- Avid Express (on both systems) to make it more fun  :-D

Which one is “more” similar?
1. Adobe Premiere VS Adobe Premiere
VS
2. Final Cut Pro VS Adobe Premiere

IF you can offer free licenses for these programs why not mail them to MacWorld/PCWorld?  Make sure it’s available for both Win32 and MacOS…
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Offline CodeSmith

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Re: In search for info on PPC cpus
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2003, 12:46:04 AM »
All these "very high end vs very high end" comparisons are pretty academic IMHO.  What's the good of knowing which of a PPC970 or Opteron is better if I (or over 80% of computer buyers) can't afford either?  it makes for good cafeteria discussion, but I think people would be more intestested in something like 7447 (G4+)  vs Athlon XP or Pentium 4.  That's the stuff most people can afford, so that's what they will care about.  Otherwise you might as well discuss the merits of BMW vs Lexus when someone asks you if they should buy an European or American car.
 

Offline AmigaMac

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Re: In search for info on PPC cpus
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2003, 01:24:23 AM »
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F you can offer free licenses for these programs why not mail them to MacWorld/PCWorld? Make sure it’s available for both Win32 and MacOS…


If they can't afford licenses for those titles, then they might as well shut down the presses.  Furthermore, these people get those licenses for free just to do reviews on them!  They have a problem with this thing called tunnel vision.  Instead of being creative on the benchmarks, they just follow suit with the other one nighters!
 

Offline Hammer

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Re: In search for info on PPC cpus
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2003, 01:25:34 AM »
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All these "very high end vs very high end" comparisons are pretty academic IMHO. What's the good of knowing which of a PPC970 or Opteron is better if I (or over 80% of computer buyers) can't afford either? it makes for good cafeteria discussion, but I think people would be more intestested in something like 7447 (G4+) vs Athlon XP or Pentium 4.

One could  focus on the second tier solutions e.g. Athlon 64 3200+, Athlon XP 3200+/nForce2, Pentium VI– C @2.8Ghz,  PowerPC 970 1.6Ghz based solutions.

IF we look* at Cinebench 2003's CPU render benchmarks from
http://aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=60000272
http://www.barefeats.com/pentium4.html
http://www.theandyzone.com/computer/shootout/shootout.html

IBM
G5 @1.6 GHz delivers 222 points (1Ghz FSB).
G5 @1.8 GHz delivers 251 points (1Ghz FSB).

AMD
K7-XP @1.6 Ghz delivers 207 points (266Mhz FSB).
K7-XP @2.2 GHz delivers 265 points (400Mhz FSB).
K8-FX @2.2 GHz delivers 305 points (@ Core speed).

Intel**
P4-C  @3.2 GHz delivers 380 points (800Mhz FSB).

*Focus on just 1-way processor setups.
**With actually working HyperThreading i.e. it's broken in some other apps.
***This FSB refers to CPU core<>Northbridge speeds links. FSB's values are "effective" Mhz.
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Offline AmigaMac

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Re: In search for info on PPC cpus
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2003, 01:28:48 AM »
 

Offline Hammer

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Re: In search for info on PPC cpus
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2003, 01:37:29 AM »
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AmigaMac wrote:
Quote
F you can offer free licenses for these programs why not mail them to MacWorld/PCWorld? Make sure it’s available for both Win32 and MacOS…


If they can't afford licenses for those titles, then they might as well shut down the presses.  Furthermore, these people get those licenses for free just to do reviews on them!  They have a problem with this thing called tunnel vision.  Instead of being creative on the benchmarks, they just follow suit with the other one nighters!

Note that these presses include MacWorld i.e. MacOS orientated press.  The overriding factors for PCWorld is the availability the similar applications for Win32 and MacOS.
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Offline Hammer

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Re: In search for info on PPC cpus
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2003, 01:40:18 AM »
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AmigaMac wrote:
At least give the PS benches:

http://www.geocities.com/sw_perf/PSBench.html

I already know that page (I bookmark it some time ago).

Secondly, it doesn’t cover dual Opteron 246 @2.0 on VIA K8T800..
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Offline AmigaMac

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Re: In search for info on PPC cpus
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2003, 01:40:55 AM »
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Note that these presses include MacWorld i.e. MacOS orientated press. The overriding factors for PCWorld is the availability the similar applications for Win32 and MacOS.


The MacWorld and PC World come from the same publisher.  Excuse NOT valid!
 

Offline AmigaMac

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Re: In search for info on PPC cpus
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2003, 01:45:43 AM »
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Secondly, it doesn’t cover dual Opteron 246 @2.0 on VIA K8T800..


We live not in a perfect world.  How often do they update the G4/G5 benches... see my point?

Opteron is targeted mostly at the server market anyways.
 

Offline Hammer

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Re: In search for info on PPC cpus
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2003, 01:46:54 AM »
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The MacWorld and PC World come from the same publisher. Excuse NOT valid!

Post the said benchmark IF it proves your case.
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Offline AmigaMac

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Re: In search for info on PPC cpus
« Reply #29 from previous page: November 27, 2003, 01:49:59 AM »
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Post the said benchmark IF it proves your case.


I don't have to prove any case.  You're the one whining about software app availability/access for these mags, not me!