Interview with Trevor Dickinson

[ffastback]

A few have described the situation/decisions as madness. But again, it stops well short of attacking TD personally. I know it's a subtle difference, but a very important one.

I have however seen plenty of comments by yourself and other recently joined members on here and in AW.net and Amigans.net accusing moobunny regulars of this and worse.

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this then.

With regard the X1000 being a dev box or not. Didn't TD say in the launch speech that it was aimed in part at developers and beta testers, with a second wave of machines being produced for everyone else?

I know about the beta program.  I'm still unaware of them saying the beta machines are dev boxes and I'm also unaware of them saying post-beta boxes will be any different in any spec  or config from beta period units.  I'm certainly willing to read any link that can be provided.

I note that many of the BAFs who initially pilloried Dammy are now using the developer system card as a means to justify the obscene price though.

I have not seen this.  I have seen stuff like "its expensive because its such a small production run".  And I have not seen any evidence that A-Eon is taking advantage of anyone.  I see on Moo Bunny often stuff like "I bet all the BAFs will be...".  Usually without a link.  And when there is one, its often one guy, sometimes taken out of context being quoted.  News flash, DAX and meet.mrgnr are not the "voices of the people".

[ffastback]

And here we have it folks. Knowing that he can't prove it (because as was pointed out in my previous post - the regulars stop well short of this.) He throws in that little qualifier there.

It wasn't true when you flat out accused the majority, any more than it is now you're trying to hedge your bets. Knock it off.

I don't need to prove anything.  Everyone is free to go to Moo Bunny and see the kind of crap that is posted there day in and day out.  And sorry, your proxy regulars are still regulars at the site.  And plenty of the non proxy users seem to be quite pleased at talking about the upcoming demise of A-EON and their stupidity in general.

[the_leander]

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this then.

Actually not. You have accused me and others of making personal attacks on Trevor Dickinson's character. You will provide citation for this now as I'm sick and tired of being libelled by you.

You make the accusation, the onus is on you to prove it.

I'm still unaware of them saying the beta machines are dev boxes and I'm also unaware of them saying post-beta boxes will be any different in any spec  or config from beta period units.

I suggest you re-read what I and Dammy wrote. Because no one here has said or even implied that there would be differences in the specification of the devices.

I have not seen this.

I'll bet you haven't.

Here, I'll just give you one example that I saw on this site. Note that this argument that "it wasn't aimed at us" is one I've seen a couple of folks use, including yourself earlier on in this thread, though you at least couched it as different hobbies.

The only jokes around are the people that still do not understand this machine is not aimed at Amigans at large but a small population of developers and PowerUsers (read: enthusiast with enough money or "will"). It only serves as a vehicle for the first, to evolve the platform, and it's just a first step.

And I have not seen any evidence that A-Eon is taking advantage of anyone.

And just like that you go off into the world of strawmen.

  I see on Moo Bunny often stuff like "I bet all the BAFs will be...".  Usually without a link.  And when there is one, its often one guy, sometimes taken out of context being quoted.  

Citation needed. It has been a very long time since I saw a quote that didn't have attribution either directly above or below it.

News flash, DAX and meet.mrgnr are not the "voices of the people".

But they are voices that get a whole lot of pats on the back for what they say on AW.net. Just because part of a message is quoted, it is supplied with attribution (IE a link back to the thread) which many people will read in order to get the context.

I don't need to prove anything.  

When you accuse me and other regular posters of this site of doing something, you damn well better back it up.

And sorry, your proxy regulars are still regulars at the site.

There are very very few proxy regulars on moobunny. They show up for a few weeks, get bored and then don't return. The current one that Red mentioned has been there for... About a fortnight now.

And plenty of the non proxy users seem to be quite pleased at talking about the upcoming demise of A-EON and their stupidity in general.

Citation needed.

[ffastback]

You will provide citation for this now as I'm sick and tired of being libelled by you.

I have not accused you personally of anything.  If you don't like my opinion about what is going on there then tune me out.

[the_leander]

I have not accused you personally of anything.

But you have, repeatedly in this thread. As a regular on Moobunny you have placed a blanket accusation on me and others without any citation whatsoever.

If you wish to show where individuals have crossed the line from stating the situation is madness to flat out defaming Trevor's character , please feel free. After all, if it is as rampant as you imply, it shouldn't take you more than a minute or two.

But either way, with respect to the TOS you will withdraw your blanket accusation now.

If you don't like my opinion about what is going on there then tune me out.

When your "opinion" includes libelling me and others without a single shred of evidence, no I don't like it and I won't put up with it from you or any other.

[AmigaHeretic]

Don't forget VM Icaros.  With that there is no barrier to trying AROS at all.

Good example of another way to break barriers to entry.  Again, I don't believe a $2000 motherboard will help OS4 brind down barriers to entry.  In fact I believe wasting what is certain to be at least a year of porting to a $2000 board is destructive for Hyperion's future.

So spend the energy on jazzing people up for AROS instead of harping on a company that has told you multiple times to go frack off and die.

A-Eon?  I hope they die so AOS4 can move on.  Hyperion?  I have never told Hyperion to die.  Go to AW.net search the forums for my nick and the word "Lawsuit" .  How many hundreds of posts do I have supporting Hyperion?  

I don't like that Hyperion gets sucked in to this $2000 board garbage (it makes them look incompetent), and I do wish for a future AOS4 x86.  So what?

AOS 4.x is not your hobby.  Its their hobby.  Your hobby is AROS and AOS 3.x.  Sure if you *really* want to use AOS 4.x, well you've said your peace hundreds of times now.  They don't give a crap.  And they even have said effectively they will continue to not give a crap.    At that point when you continue to go on so much you look not very interested in AOS 4.x at all, and more interested in making a sport out of bitching.  When a woman rejects you in a bar, do you talk about her 4 years later, or do you find someone else to pursue, someone that wants to be with you?

It certainly is my hobby.  The Amiga community is my hobby.  I am an active user of Amiga68k(3.9 mostly) and AROS.  I am soon likely to be using MorphOS (now the barrier to entry has gone even lower), but I still enjoy seeing the latest OS4 and checking out progress on ports etc.  Yes this is my hobby.


I know a lot of peoples who hobbies are in airplanes.  They read about old ones and get the latest news about new ones.  Have magazine subscriptions, browese websites.  Guess what?   They don't own every single brand of airplane.  Most of them don't own a single airplane.  Still their hobby.

I don't think I have to own every brand of AmigaOS to see all of the "Amiga" as my hobby.

Its not like Hyperion is sharing code with other camps.  Even if you are right its no loss on AROS or MorphOS.  And I'm sure at least *some* folks are willing to try one of the other choices out.  How many?  Thats impossible to know.

It's not about Hyperion sharing code.  It's about users sharing code.  Sharing ports.  Building the software database.  It's about all camps growing to a point where if there was enough users to sell a piece of software, it could be sold as an "Amiga" title across AROS, MorphOS, OS4.   I think we already have that a large extent.


If MorphOS ran on x86 and still kept the same 30 minute demo idea then many more people would try MorphOS.  Running on modern hardware would only make it more appealing and that would translate into more sales.

Maybe the Hyperion folks will catch up someday.  I think that would be great.

[jj]

But hyperion are as much to blame in the continuing saga of AOS4 as anyone else.  Maybe more so, though they did eventually release something I suppose.
 
Lets be honest its about time < AOS3.1 and kickstart was made open source.   For the money thats left in it AOS4 should probably be released to have any chance of it continuing

[ffastback]

But either way, with respect to the TOS you will withdraw your blanket accusation now.

I have my opinion and you have yours.  If you feel I have violated the TOS of amiga.org and you have the ability to ban me for my opinion there is nothing I can do to stop you.

[the_leander]

I have my opinion and you have yours.

Sorry that doesn't play. You have accused me and others of defaming Trevor Dickinsons character without any evidence.

You want to provide proof that individuals have done such, then by all means have at it.
 
All I want is for you to withdraw this false blanket accusation.

ban me for my opinion

Strawman.

No one wants to "ban you for your opinion", but the TOS is quite clear with regard to libelling others.

From the TOS:

Posts of a libellous nature are not allowed.
Everyone has a right to their own opinion, whether you think it right or wrong. Posting false information about an individual is not only bad form, but could become a serious problem, both for the poster, and for Amiga.org itself.

[ffastback]

A-Eon?  I hope they die so AOS4 can move on.  Hyperion?  I have never told Hyperion to die.  Go to AW.net search the forums for my nick and the word "Lawsuit" .  How many hundreds of posts do I have supporting Hyperion?  

You mis-understood me.  I was refering to how Hyperion has made it clear its not interested in x86 proponents as customers at this time or in the forseeable future.  There comes a point where you have said what you think is good advice so much that if you keep it up for years after the other party keeps telling you to go away where it starts to appear you may be making a sport out of keeping at it so often.  And unless you can have Acube die too whats the motivation for Hyperion to go x86, given their stated mindset?

I don't like that Hyperion gets sucked in to this $2000 board garbage (it makes them look incompetent), and I do wish for a future AOS4 x86.  So what?

They seem quite happy being a PPC OS.  They hardly seemed to have gotten "sucked in".  And the SAM is not exactly cheap either.

I know a lot of peoples who hobbies are in airplanes.  They read about old ones and get the latest news about new ones.  Have magazine subscriptions, browese websites.  Guess what?   They don't own every single brand of airplane.  Most of them don't own a single airplane.  Still their hobby.

Do they constantly go on for years that Airbus should build planes like Boeing?  At some point it just would seem odd to do so.

[ffastback]

Sorry that doesn't play. You have accused me and others of defaming Trevor Dickinsons character without any evidence.

Lets see, I said:

"You think its not a fun game to them? The bigger and more frequent A-Eon's failures the more well received will be the news and the more ravenous to tear A-Eon apart is how things will play out there. Sure maybe Ben is an a-hole that deserves nothing less. I was not around at the time but I know he upset a ton of people. But does Trevor really deserve such from people who are supposed to be grown men. Hmm, probably not."

Where did I say *you* defamed his character?  I have asked koafter (koft) to clarify his criminality comment.  Hell I don't even know your nick on Moo.

My comment is straightfoward, does Trevor really deserve what is said there about his venture and the inferences made about its motivations, where things are said like A-Eon is treating its customers like pigs that need to be bent over etc.  You don't find that sort of thing crass and unnecessary?  You don't wonder at someone's motivations to speak about something as mundane as A-Eon in such a manner, so often?  Maybe you are desensitized from being at Moo for years or something.

[the_leander]

Where did I say *you* defamed his character?

Is the English language not your first perhaps?

You have stated repeatedly in this very thread that "many moobunny regulars" have attacked Trevor's character, yet not provided a single shred of evidence to justify this claim.

As a moobunny regular I take issue with this because it infers that I and or others (many) have made comments that defame Trevor's character.

I have asked (repeatedly now) for you to justify this blanket accusation or withdraw it. I have also stated that that if you were to accuse individuals (with citation, obviously) of doing so you wouldn't have a single complaint over it.

And yet you have squirmed every which way to try to justify it.

Citations, do you have them?

My comment is straightfoward, does Trevor really deserve what is said there about his venture and the inferences made about its motivations,

Well without citations for what is actually being said of Trevor, I can't really comment on this, can I?

where things are said like A-Eon is treating its customers like pigs that need to be bent over etc.

Citation most definitely needed.

 You don't find that sort of thing crass and unnecessary?

In a site where the marketplace of ideas reigns supreme, only the ones that work actually survive. I know coming from a website whose history of gross censorship this might be a hard concept to take in, but it works.

  You don't wonder at someone's motivations to speak about something as mundane as A-Eon in such a manner, so often?  

Yup, still waiting on those citations. As to motivations, I wonder at everyone.

Maybe you are desensitized from being at Moo for years or something.

Or maybe you could just withdraw the blanket allegation and provide specific instances aimed at specific posters, like you've been asked to.

[persia]

Trevor is smart enough to realise that pursuing Amiga as a "mainstream" product is a dead end.  It's a boutique product.  Custom hardware, custom software, built in small quantities for those that like things that way.  What happens after X1000?  Presumably X2000 in the same or higher price range and quantities.  Trevor gets some return on investment, a chance of be a really big fish in a really small pond, and the satisfaction of advancing his favourite hobby.  Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[persia]

Lets see, I said:

A-Eon is treating its customers like pigs that need to be bent over etc.  

They sometimes say things about Kiwis and sheep, but pigs? ...

[ffastback]

If you want to twist my quote thats your business.  If you want to get into a debate over the word "many" thats not going to happen.

You might view that bent over pig talk as "keeping it real" or something.  I'm not talking about censoring.  I talking about my impression and opinion that is formed after reading posts like that.  Honest, well meaning critique is not the first thing that comes to mind when reading such.

[ffastback]

@persia

LOL, did you quote like that on purpose?  You imply I said something there I did not.