Interview with Trevor Dickinson

[dammy]

How do you figure?  There are no illusions to the limitations of AOS 4.x.  There are no illusions about the available applications.  And who is really listening but hobbyists?  And even if a non-hobbyist heard of the machine none would ever spend such money.  The specs and limited OS support for the machine, where the OS does not even support the hardware fully is of no use to a non-hobbyist.

I can agree with you it's not a serious machine for the real world, but what is with all that X hype and all the attention of outside media?  Why international media if they are just for small group of OS4 hobbyist who can afford it?  Answer is they are trying to go beyond the OS4 community as they desperate looking for additional sales.  That's not the actions of a company producing a hobbyist machine, that's a company trying to go beyond the current hobbyist market.  Please don't tell me they are trying to expand their hobbyist market with a price tag that makes their own hobbyist group faint.

[redrumloa]

Come now, many of the Moo Bunny regulars will squeal in delight, or at the least be pleasantly amused. You hang out there often, so you should be very aware of this.

Huh? What does that have to do with the price of milk? I doubt many "would squeal with delight". I'd think the only amusement would be validitation of what appeared obvious, despite getting slammed for stating what appeared obvious. See Dammy getting blasted for suggesting the X1000 would be a developer box, about a month before A-Eon announced it would be a developer box.
 
-edit-
Unless of course you are referencing the idiots who post trolling nonsense using anonymous proxies on Moob. Their posts are worthless and Moob regulars usually ignore them. Most of the over the top nonsense lately is probably one individual with some sort of serious personality disorder and repressed sexuality.

[Nlandas]

I bet he could have got AmigaOS converted to x86 for 200000 quid!

Tension, Spot on my friend. Why spend all this money in developing custom PowerPC hardware when modern x86 hardware is more than up to the task of running AmigaOS and even in emulation the old games run smoothly.

What I'd like to see - is AmigaOS x86 native. Then it would be really cool to have the UAE made to run within AmigaOS so I can keep my nostalgic stuff around with the new.

200,000 Euro would have gone a good way towards making that possible.

Queue the but we already have AROS crowd. I'd personally like to see AmigaOS 6 be native x86 and Open Source with Hyperion being the ones to control the code base.

-Nyle

[persia]

AROS needs to fork at some point into AROS classic and AROS NextGen.  That is unfortunately less likely now the Anubis will no longer be hunting chickens.... A shame really.

[dammy]

AROS needs to fork at some point into AROS classic and AROS NextGen.  That is unfortunately less likely now the Anubis will no longer be hunting chickens.... A shame really.

AROS TNG was suppost to have been AROS64, but we know how well the idea of AROS64 breaking 3.1API went over.  I think a complete rewrite will have to be done which was the late Anubis-OS project.  Perhaps something new in the fall, we shall see.

[ffastback]

Huh? What does that have to do with the price of milk? I doubt many "would squeal with delight". I'd think the only amusement would be validitation of what appeared obvious, despite getting slammed for stating what appeared obvious. See Dammy getting blasted for suggesting the X1000 would be a developer box, about a month before A-Eon announced it would be a developer box.
 
-edit-
Unless of course you are referencing the idiots who post trolling nonsense using anonymous proxies on Moob. Their posts are worthless and Moob regulars usually ignore them. Most of the over the top nonsense lately is probably one individual with some sort of serious personality disorder and repressed sexuality.

A-Eon has never announced the X1000 as a developer box that I have seen.  Can you show me a link?  Lets speak in terms of reality ok?  There is no sizeable OS 4 market.  There is no meaningful money in software development for OS 4.  The OS uses none of the new hardware features the board offers.  A developer system for OS4, that would be something like a PPC based Beagle Board, not a 1500+GBP machine.  And before you elude to the beta program meaning thats "developers" they are looking for end users to be beta testers.  Sure some of them maybe know some programing by happenstance.  But if jahc waits to get his X1000 until after the beta will that make the X1000s sold post-beta "developer boxes" too.  Thats just plain silly.  Its not logic being applied here to come up with that label.  That label came from Dammy trying to put a spin on what the machine is.  Hell, I agree the public beta that you have to *pay* to be in is ridiculous, but so is calling it a developer box.  Again, if A-Eon called it that and I missed it, just provide a link.

And on the subject of Moo Bunny, are you really willing to think that many of the Moo Bunny regulars who post (not with proxies) are not enjoying themselves ragging on A-Eon every day?  You think its not a fun game to them?  The bigger and more frequent A-Eon's failures the more well received will be the news and the more ravenous to tear A-Eon apart is how things will play out there.  Sure maybe Ben is an a-hole that deserves nothing less.  I was not around at the time but I know he upset a ton of people.  But does Trevor really deserve such from people who are supposed to be grown men.  Hmm, probably not.

[persia]

Part of the Anubis problem was they took the dog head icon seriously.  There needs to be some discussion on goals and destination of what TNG means and whether there is any real interest in it.

We are at an interesting point in computer development.  iOS 4 is out and will soon be followed by Android Gingerbread (3.0).  These are mobile device OSs, but it appears that is where we are heading.  The 27 inch iMac for my wife may indeed be the last pure desktop I ever buy.  Who knows what combination of tablet and laptop will be available when we're in the market for a new computer again.  But the desktop box is becoming a shrinking niche in the computer world.  

It feels like the '80s again, whatever tablet/notebook/other device emerges from this will forever change everything.  The question for AROS is how to fit into the world that is coming.

AROS TNG was suppost to have been AROS64, but we know how well the idea of AROS64 breaking 3.1API went over.  I think a complete rewrite will have to be done which was the late Anubis-OS project.  Perhaps something new in the fall, we shall see.

[ffastback]

Tension, Spot on my friend. Why spend all this money in developing custom PowerPC hardware when modern x86 hardware is more than up to the task of running AmigaOS and even in emulation the old games run smoothly.

What I'd like to see - is AmigaOS x86 native. Then it would be really cool to have the UAE made to run within AmigaOS so I can keep my nostalgic stuff around with the new.

200,000 Euro would have gone a good way towards making that possible.

Queue the but we already have AROS crowd. I'd personally like to see AmigaOS 6 be native x86 and Open Source with Hyperion being the ones to control the code base.

-Nyle

Trevor wanted to build what he saw as a new Amiga with a custom chip of some sort.  Maybe he is in the "x86 is not Amiga" camp.  Just like you appear (at first glance anyway) to be in the "but AROS is not Amiga" camp.  Maybe custom hardware is just something he is in to.  He's hoping to break even in this *business* venture.  I think thats crazy and not going to happen.  But its not a business on any level to just give away 200,000 Euro to another business (Hyperion) as a gift to fund them converting the OS.  And while many of us think A-Eon is going to be looking at one hell of a loss, in Trevor's mind he at least sees it being possible to make the money back.

The alternative in *reality* anyway appears to be that he not spend the 200,000 Euro at all.  The question is not "would it be better if he paid for x86 conversion" because that simply is not a motivation to the man with the money.  The only real question in this vein is "would it be better if he had done nothing".

[koaftder]

They way you write about this guy, you'd think you were closer to him than his own wife. *barf* C'mon, you don't know what's going on Trevor's head.

[ffastback]

To fight attrition at least.  Though it would be nice to grow the community somewhat.  If we had 10,000 active users across MorphOS, OS4, AROS, and OS3.x our hobby would be more interesting.

The problem is not that all three are not on x86.  The problem is that there are three choices to begin with.  Its what keeps us divided and what slows progress for all three choices.  And lets not fool ourselves.  You've admitted this in the past, some folks *like* the exclusivity of some of those options.  Some people like having friends over where they ask "what's that" and they can say "its my new Amiga".  Like it or not, if all three choices were on x86 we'd lose some people along the way.  Sure we might gain more in the end.  But we'd still have the camps.  Ultimately its probably better that MorphOS and OS4 die as PPC operating systems leaving only AROS to continue on at some point.

It's hard to even combat attrition though with all the barriers to entry.  OS4 you have high prices.  MorphOS you have to buy used hardware off ebay.  AROS barriers has traditionally been finding the right hardware and lack of software.  They are now winning on the software front and thanks to ClusterUK any one can get in for cheap with no work at all.

Don't forget VM Icaros.  With that there is no barrier to trying AROS at all.  

Moving to x86 just takes away many barriers.  Price being one.  If someone wants to rebage an X86 board and call it the X2000 they don't need to invest $200,000 to do it.

So spend the energy on jazzing people up for AROS instead of harping on a company that has told you multiple times to go frack off and die.

The typical, "If you don't agree then shut up whiner".  I'm not whining.  I am discussing my hobby and it's future.  

AOS 4.x is not your hobby.  Its their hobby.  Your hobby is AROS and AOS 3.x.  Sure if you *really* want to use AOS 4.x, well you've said your peace hundreds of times now.  They don't give a crap.  And they even have said effectively they will continue to not give a crap.    At that point when you continue to go on so much you look not very interested in AOS 4.x at all, and more interested in making a sport out of bitching.  When a woman rejects you in a bar, do you talk about her 4 years later, or do you find someone else to pursue, someone that wants to be with you?

I don't think that is true a majority of the time.  As people move away from OS4 (let it gather dust) I don't think they tend to move to something else other than Windows/Linux/Mac and our community grows smaller.  Same things for MorphOS and AROS.   If they stop using one of those because of whatever is lacking (hardware, software, etc)  they don't move to another camp they just move on.

Its not like Hyperion is sharing code with other camps.  Even if you are right its no loss on AROS or MorphOS.  And I'm sure at least *some* folks are willing to try one of the other choices out.  How many?  Thats impossible to know.

[ffastback]

They way you write about this guy, you'd think you were closer to him than his own wife. *barf* C'mon, you don't know what's going on Trevor's head.

Neither do you.  Yet its funny, you are the king of conjecture when it comes to them.  :p

I'm commenting based on things he has said in interviews and postings.  You are just in "let me make stuff up" mode.  Big difference.  You have been clear in your motivations to take them down a notch, what was it the other day, you can't wait to wrap the X1000 in plastic and crush it in a trash compactor?  And that Trevor acts with criminality on some level?

[the_leander]

And on the subject of Moo Bunny, are you really willing to think that many of the Moo Bunny regulars who post (not with proxies) are not enjoying themselves ragging on A-Eon every day?

Actually, speaking as one of the regulars on the bunny the consensus is pretty much that this is all a little sad. I don't see that people are enjoying it however, as many of those same regulars are long time Amiga users who see the imminent failure of the X1000 due to it's exorbitant price, probably being the death knell of OS4.

Sure maybe Ben is an a-hole that deserves nothing less.  I was not around at the time but I know he upset a ton of people.

I believe you misspelled libelled.

But does Trevor really deserve such from people who are supposed to be grown men.  Hmm, probably not.

From what I've seen the view on the bunny is that they can't quite get their heads around anyone pouring so much cash into a project with no appreciable chance of success, even within the context of a hobbyist market. I see very little outside of the current proxy lovin' troll who suffers from as Red said: "Most of the over the top nonsense lately is probably one individual with some sort of serious personality disorder and repressed sexuality." as being a disparaging comment aimed at him personally.

A few have described the situation/decisions as madness. But again, it stops well short of attacking TD personally. I know it's a subtle difference, but a very important one.

I have however seen plenty of comments by yourself and other recently joined members on here and in AW.net and Amigans.net accusing moobunny regulars of this and worse.

And I'm getting tired of these baseless accusations being levelled at me and others over and over.

With regard the X1000 being a dev box or not. Didn't TD say in the launch speech that it was aimed in part at developers and beta testers, with a second wave of machines being produced for everyone else?

I note that many of the BAFs who initially pilloried Dammy are now using the developer system card as a means to justify the obscene price though.

[ffastback]

Yes, I do hang out there as well.  But you would only know that if your a regular MooBunny as well.   Some post with their regular handles, some post via anonymous proxies.

What part of the word "many" do you not understand?

That's one main problems, in order to have sales of high end machines at very high end prices, there has to be demand for it.  Problem is that there is no demand for it because there is no significant user base willing to pay that much out for a machine that will be under used by the intended OS.   I do wonder how many OS4 Devs are going to be jumping on this, even with a major discount.

Odds are not many.  Especially considering there are hardly many OS4 Devs in the first place.  That should be plain as day.

Apart of being a partner is to share in the glory as well as the failures.

Sure someone's rep can be hurt from a failure.  But that still hardly gives one company the means to control the decisions of another.  And beggars can't be choosers.  "Hi Hyperion I want to make a PPC machine for your users!"  That does not come around that often.  And if Acube ever says "gosh we make no money on this" and leaves what would they have then?  If Hyperion sells 50 copies to our hobbyist community its still sales.  On paper Hyperion should not be even in business anymore.  Somehow they have lived on almost nothing for years.  They are in no position to demand that A-Eon make a $300 box instead of a 1500+ GBP one.

They would have been far better off and offering at a far cheaper price if they had bought new but surplus Apple PPC mobos.  If Apple is willing to sell them the CPUs, Apple might have been willing to license out one of their old Apple mobo designs.

Why bother, just support existing PPC Macs then, like MorphOS.

What your missing is the shear number of drivers/car owners out there.  That is a huge pool to skim a few rich people from so it's doable marketing wise.  Worse yet, it would be like Tesla selling for full value but the motor will only produce half the horse power and only use half the batteries with a promise that in the future, the owner can use all the batteries to fully power the engine.  And all instructions written in Aramaic.  Somehow I think it would be a disaster for Telsa, don't you?

And yet most analysts don't view that IPO as a good bet and expect Tesla's long term chances to not be good at all.  The company only exists because one guy with money wanted to make high powered luxury electric vehicles.  Sure, Trevor would have been better off talking to you first and getting convinced not to waste his money.  But he already did what he did.  Whats the point in effectively labeling him an idiot over and over ad nasuem?

[ffastback]

I can agree with you it's not a serious machine for the real world, but what is with all that X hype and all the attention of outside media?  Why international media if they are just for small group of OS4 hobbyist who can afford it?  Answer is they are trying to go beyond the OS4 community as they desperate looking for additional sales.  That's not the actions of a company producing a hobbyist machine, that's a company trying to go beyond the current hobbyist market.  Please don't tell me they are trying to expand their hobbyist market with a price tag that makes their own hobbyist group faint.

What makes their own hobbyist group faint is what immediately will make true outsiders just laugh.  The only people from the outside world they are going to gain are the folks who would probably be part of the OS4 community if they had already known it existed and maybe a few ultra geeks from other areas that will fit right in.  Besides saying "its a new Amiga, its the most powerful Amiga hardware spec ever!, it has a custom chip, old Amigas had custom chips!" what are they saying exactly to dupe the world at large through "international media"?  Where is the smoking gun of their supposed "conspiracy" to rip people off?

[the_leander]

What part of the word "many" do you not understand?

Possibly the same part of Citation Needed that neither you nor the recent influx of AW.net regulars understand.

You keep hurling this accusation at us. Time to back it up with some figures I think.

Whats the point in effectively labeling him an idiot over and over ad nasuem?

And here we have it folks. Knowing that he can't prove it (because as was pointed out in my previous post - the regulars stop well short of this.) He throws in that little qualifier there.

It wasn't true when you flat out accused the majority, any more than it is now you're trying to hedge your bets. Knock it off.

[ffastback]

A few have described the situation/decisions as madness. But again, it stops well short of attacking TD personally. I know it's a subtle difference, but a very important one.

I have however seen plenty of comments by yourself and other recently joined members on here and in AW.net and Amigans.net accusing moobunny regulars of this and worse.

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this then.

With regard the X1000 being a dev box or not. Didn't TD say in the launch speech that it was aimed in part at developers and beta testers, with a second wave of machines being produced for everyone else?

I know about the beta program.  I'm still unaware of them saying the beta machines are dev boxes and I'm also unaware of them saying post-beta boxes will be any different in any spec  or config from beta period units.  I'm certainly willing to read any link that can be provided.

I note that many of the BAFs who initially pilloried Dammy are now using the developer system card as a means to justify the obscene price though.

I have not seen this.  I have seen stuff like "its expensive because its such a small production run".  And I have not seen any evidence that A-Eon is taking advantage of anyone.  I see on Moo Bunny often stuff like "I bet all the BAFs will be...".  Usually without a link.  And when there is one, its often one guy, sometimes taken out of context being quoted.  News flash, DAX and meet.mrgnr are not the "voices of the people".