Interview with Trevor Dickinson

[the_leander]

Though between their current choices of OS4 using custom hardware and MorphOS reusing old MAC hardware, I think the MorphOS is a better short term solutions out of those two.  However, I think they both need to move to x86.

The man speaks truth.

[ffastback]

So what was their point in investing that type of money for mobo sales in the triple digits with low triple digit sales likely?

I think Trevor has been pretty upfront.  He wants a true desktop machine that can get the brand name AmigaOne on it.  If he breaks even he will be happy, if he does not at least he achieved his dream.

[ffastback]

Is sure not being hyped as a hobby.

How do you figure?  There are no illusions to the limitations of AOS 4.x.  There are no illusions about the available applications.  And who is really listening but hobbyists?  And even if a non-hobbyist heard of the machine none would ever spend such money.  The specs and limited OS support for the machine, where the OS does not even support the hardware fully is of no use to a non-hobbyist.

[ffastback]

My post is referring to OS4 though.  I think AROS is in good shape.   Personally I think all that is said about not going to x86 for OS4 applies to MorphOS as well.  Though between their current choices of OS4 using custom hardware and MorphOS reusing old MAC hardware, I think the MorphOS is a better short term solutions out of those two.  However, I think they both need to move to x86.

They both "need" to move to x86 to achieve what exactly?  Non-hobby OS status?  There would be plenty of work required beyond the x86 porting to do for that to happen.  If a company tells you to (effectively) go screw on what you want its rational to move on.  Bitching and grumbling for a limited amount of time is acceptable, its called "potential customer feedback".  Bitching for years and trying to undermine what that company is trying to do, even if you think its tremendously stupid only makes you look like Glenn Close in "Fatal Attraction".  Look at it this way, AROS is progressing a lot more lately.  The more people Hyperion scare away, force away, whatever the better it is for AROS.

[Lando]

Thinking about it, if I was a multi-millionaire, and could afford to lose 200k without losing sleep, I would probably make a new Amiga too, just for old times sake and for the love of the old Commodore computers.

Watching the interviews with Trevor he seems like a really nice guy, and a genuine Amiga freak (how many Amigas was it he said he had, 50 or something?).  Good luck to the guy, I really do hope he makes at least some of his money back on this thing.

[dammy]

I think Trevor has been pretty upfront.  He wants a true desktop machine that can get the brand name AmigaOne on it.  If he breaks even he will be happy, if he does not at least he achieved his dream.

Well, that's a good thing.  What I don't get why he even bothered with the configuration of the A1X1K since it's a white elephant at best because of multiple marketing issues.  If he and his partner were going to spend that type of cash, why not on something that would generate sales of units in at least 4 digits?  Lots of sales benefit everyone in the A-EON/Hyerion/OS4 community.  Crap sales hurt everyone, their best dream machine comes down in flaming wreckage is going to demoralize everyone.  Especially those trying to make money within the OS4 community.

[ffastback]

Crap sales hurt everyone, their best dream machine comes down in flaming wreckage is going to demoralize everyone.

Come now, many of the Moo Bunny regulars will squeal in delight, or at the least be pleasantly amused.  You hang out there often, so you should be very aware of this.

If he and his partner were going to spend that type of cash, why not on something that would generate sales of units in at least 4 digits?

Isn't it obvious that Trevor had built what his dream of an Amiga is?  Or at least the best approximation he could muster?  Is there any indication that he would have rather had 1000 units sold of something that was not his dream instead of 250 of what is his dream box?  I have not seen any indication of that.  In fact he has mentioned SAM multiple times for the explicit reason that he considers them fulfilling the less expensive box.  Its pretty obvious that he is not interested in making a $300 unit that they could sell much more of that would come in at a price point under SAM.

What I don't get why he even bothered with the configuration of the A1X1K since it's a white elephant at best because of multiple marketing issues

It appears he was partially blinded by a dream.  He'll almost certainly lose money on this.  What's really to get beyond that?  Does Ben have a different intention?  Quite possibly.

Lots of sales benefit everyone in the A-EON/Hyerion/OS4 community.

True, but that is not Trevor's responsibility, nor is it A-EON's.  Its Hyperion's.  If they can't encourage Acube to make the entry level $300 box then they should look elsewhere, thats assuming its even monetarily feasible.  There is no guarantee someone would make back their money on such a box.  

Lets look at another real world example, should Tesla Motors be looking to make an electric car more like the small hybrids of late or what they are instead making (a big 4 door sedan).  Well to make money better they should be making the smaller cars.  But they don't want or desire to do that.  They want to be the company of "High Performance Electric Vehicles".  Right now A-Eon is looking to be the "high end Amiga workstation company".  Is that silly, a mistake, etc?  Yep most likely.  But there is no need or reason to demonize them for it either.  If Trevor had not been motivated by this dream what really would the difference be for the community.  Lots of folks would be bitching the SAM 460 is too expensive instead, when what they really all should probably be doing is buying an iMica (IMHO).

[EDanaII]

The man speaks truth.

Amen, brother...

[runequester]

If his main concern was sales, he could just resell Dell machines with windows and put amiga stickers on them.

[mbrantley]

It's apparent it's Trevor's dream to build this machine. Mine, too, I guess, as I've daydreamed a time or two (truthfully more) about being rich enough to accomplish such a thing.

I'm not, but given enough months and no unexpected hurdles, I can swing owning such a machine. Another dream of mine -- one Mr. Dickinson and his partners can help make a reality for me.

Look, I'm one of those blokes who has spent way too much on maintaining and upgrading classic Amiga hardware when better bang-for-buck could be accomplished by buying stuff to run Windows, Linux or OS X. This is no different.

This expensive computer that's coming is not the only hardware that runs AOS4. And AOS4 is not the only Amiga-like OS running on PPC hardware, as there is another choice that runs on very affordable PPC hardware. And PPC hardware is not the only game in town to run an Amiga-like OS, as AROS seems to be coming along nicely of late.

And there's still software emulation, MiniMig and the promise of NatAmi, not to mention new hardware and some software for the classics.

I've said this before: Every path that any one individual wants followed is being followed by one party or another in our multifaceted community. I'm not so stubborn that I will insist that everyone follow the path *I* think best.

I'm just so very, very glad there are developments on so many fronts these days and each and every one seems on course to deliver. Maybe one of them will fail spectacularly, but maybe not. This many years after the demise of Commodore and Escom and the Gateway debacle and all that followed, there seems to be an undying will that's not going to be extinguished anytime soon.

Gonna go make a pass through the house for stuff I don't need to sell on eBay, because I'm aiming on having me an X1000. Go ahead and make fun all you want.

[Akiko]

@mbrantley

Well said Sir

[AmigaHeretic]

They both "need" to move to x86 to achieve what exactly?  Non-hobby OS status?  

To fight attrition at least.  Though it would be nice to grow the community somewhat.  If we had 10,000 active users across MorphOS, OS4, AROS, and OS3.x our hobby would be more interesting.  

It's hard to even combat attrition though with all the barriers to entry.  OS4 you have high prices.  MorphOS you have to buy used hardware off ebay.  AROS barriers has traditionally been finding the right hardware and lack of software.  They are now winning on the software front and thanks to ClusterUK any one can get in for cheap with no work at all.

Moving to x86 just takes away many barriers.  Price being one.  If someone wants to rebage an X86 board and call it the X2000 they don't need to invest $200,000 to do it.

Bitching and grumbling for a limited amount of time is acceptable, its called "potential customer feedback".  

The typical, "If you don't agree then shut up whiner".  I'm not whining.  I am discussing my hobby and it's future.  

Look at it this way, AROS is progressing a lot more lately.  The more people Hyperion scare away, force away, whatever the better it is for AROS.

I don't think that is true a majority of the time.  As people move away from OS4 (let it gather dust) I don't think they tend to move to something else other than Windows/Linux/Mac and our community grows smaller.  Same things for MorphOS and AROS.   If they stop using one of those because of whatever is lacking (hardware, software, etc)  they don't move to another camp they just move on.

[a1200]

Seems pretty foolish to me. Most folks I've known who had money like that to toss around didn't get there by making stupid investments.

As I understand it, TrevorDick made his money in the oil industry. Once you have oil, you don't need too much business acumen, crude is a licence to print money... I hazard a guess he has a boatload.

[a1200]

Ever hear of the guy in the desert?  He is on the edge of death from lack of water.  He comes to find a deserted well.  There is a bottle of water at the well and a note.  It's says the well has plenty of water, but in order to get the pump to work you need to prime it by poring the bottle of water into it to get it started.

So the guy is holding a bottle of water in his hand.  Does he trust the note?  

Drink the water or prime the pump?

Problem with drinking the water is you might feel good for a an hour our two, but then you are going to die.  If he primes the pumper, maybe the note was wrong and the well is dried up in which case he dies anyway.  But at least he has a chance of getting all the water he could need.

Never heard that parable. Its quite good.

[dammy]

Come now, many of the Moo Bunny regulars will squeal in delight, or at the least be pleasantly amused.  You hang out there often, so you should be very aware of this.

Yes, I do hang out there as well.  But you would only know that if your a regular MooBunny as well.   Some post with their regular handles, some post via anonymous proxies.  

Isn't it obvious that Trevor had built what his dream of an Amiga is?  Or at least the best approximation he could muster?  Is there any indication that he would have rather had 1000 units sold of something that was not his dream instead of 250 of what is his dream box?  I have not seen any indication of that.  In fact he has mentioned SAM multiple times for the explicit reason that he considers them fulfilling the less expensive box.  Its pretty obvious that he is not interested in making a $300 unit that they could sell much more of that would come in at a price point under SAM.

That's one main problems, in order to have sales of high end machines at very high end prices, there has to be demand for it.  Problem is that there is no demand for it because there is no significant user base willing to pay that much out for a machine that will be under used by the intended OS.   I do wonder how many OS4 Devs are going to be jumping on this, even with a major discount.

It appears he was partially blinded by a dream.  He'll almost certainly lose money on this.  What's really to get beyond that?  Does Ben have a different intention?  Quite possibly.

You left out the reason of the third partner.

True, but that is not Trevor's responsibility, nor is it A-EON's.  Its Hyperion's.

Apart of being a partner is to share in the glory as well as the failures.

If they can't encourage Acube to make the entry level $300 box then they should look elsewhere, thats assuming its even monetarily feasible.  There is no guarantee someone would make back their money on such a box.  

They would have been far better off and offering at a far cheaper price if they had bought new but surplus Apple PPC mobos.  If Apple is willing to sell them the CPUs, Apple might have been willing to license out one of their old Apple mobo designs.

Lets look at another real world example, should Tesla Motors be looking to make an electric car more like the small hybrids of late or what they are instead making (a big 4 door sedan).  Well to make money better they should be making the smaller cars.  But they don't want or desire to do that.  They want to be the company of "High Performance Electric Vehicles".  Right now A-Eon is looking to be the "high end Amiga workstation company".  Is that silly, a mistake, etc?  Yep most likely.  But there is no need or reason to demonize them for it either.  If Trevor had not been motivated by this dream what really would the difference be for the community.  Lots of folks would be bitching the SAM 460 is too expensive instead, when what they really all should probably be doing is buying an iMica (IMHO).

What your missing is the shear number of drivers/car owners out there.  That is a huge pool to skim a few rich people from so it's doable marketing wise.  Worse yet, it would be like Tesla selling for full value but the motor will only produce half the horse power and only use half the batteries with a promise that in the future, the owner can use all the batteries to fully power the engine.  And all instructions written in Aramaic.  Somehow I think it would be a disaster for Telsa, don't you?

[dammy]

How do you figure?  There are no illusions to the limitations of AOS 4.x.  There are no illusions about the available applications.  And who is really listening but hobbyists?  And even if a non-hobbyist heard of the machine none would ever spend such money.  The specs and limited OS support for the machine, where the OS does not even support the hardware fully is of no use to a non-hobbyist.

I can agree with you it's not a serious machine for the real world, but what is with all that X hype and all the attention of outside media?  Why international media if they are just for small group of OS4 hobbyist who can afford it?  Answer is they are trying to go beyond the OS4 community as they desperate looking for additional sales.  That's not the actions of a company producing a hobbyist machine, that's a company trying to go beyond the current hobbyist market.  Please don't tell me they are trying to expand their hobbyist market with a price tag that makes their own hobbyist group faint.