Interview with Trevor Dickinson

[jorkany]

Why would a company pursue such?  Trevor is quoted in the article as saying he'd be happy to break even.  To me that says this company is more a vehicle for him to pursue a passion then it is truly a business.  Its his money and I certainly don't fault him for risking it to try to benefit the community.

I'll bite - how does producing a dead-end system like the X1000 benefit the community, and which community are you talking about anyway?

[ffastback]

I'll bite - how does producing a dead-end system like the X1000 benefit the community, and which community are you talking about anyway?

Its a hobby community jorkany.  More choices within a hobby are usually beneficial, it gives people another way to explore their hobby, assuming they can afford it.

Sure, if your goal is for "Amiga" to transition from a group of hobby systems and into a competitive role with other computing platforms as actual working platforms then anything taking people away from AROS on any level is bad news.  Realistically though people in general are entrenched and are not going to unite under AROS.  And so the X1000 is another option for hobbyists to play at their hobby.  How can that be bad?

[ffastback]

I'm guessing they'll sell 100 tops, probably half that. I've heard a lot of dyed in the wool AOS4 users balking about the price. That's a bad sign.

Its a bad sign for Trevor sure.  If that happens he won't break even, which is his hope.  Does it mean he was foolish to even try?  I guess that depends on how much 200,000 EUR is to him and how important a dream this was for him to see this machine even made.

[redrumloa]

Do you really even see a market for 500 machines though? Personally I think that is a stretch.

By a factor of 10...

[AJCopland]

@AJCopland
You're assuming that the 200k investment so far includes the actual production costs. They're still working the kinks out, they may not have even done a run yet.

And you're assuming that it doesn't after all everyone one here is of the opinion that Euro200k is a lot for a PPC mobo _design_ so it might include production.

We don't know so we'll just have to wait and see, I just don't think it's entirely fair to disparage him until we know for sure.

Also everyone seems to be screaming about the bad value of the "developer" version which costs £1500. The fact that he's made such a distinction does seem to hint that there will be a cheaper "consumer" iteration.

Andy

[koaftder]

Its a bad sign for Trevor sure. If that happens he won't break even, which is his hope. Does it mean he was foolish to even try? I guess that depends on how much 200,000 EUR is to him and how important a dream this was for him to see this machine even made.

Seems pretty foolish to me. Most folks I've known who had money like that to toss around didn't get there by making stupid investments. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a computer costing over 2000 dollars running AOS 4 on yesterdays tech with an out of production processor isn't going to be profitable nor is it something that's going to "carry the platform forward".
 
The whole idea of "trying" doesn't impress me, all kinds of idiots try all kinds of ridiculous things and loose their shirts in the process. They're fools. The folks at A-Eon are a little bit more than fools though, -MODERATED- Their bizarre marketing scheme was designed to appeal to suckers in the community who don't know jack about hardware or software design and development. The whole thing stinks to high heaven and I can't wait to see it wrapped in a plastic bag and tossed in a compactor.

[Framiga]

@ mods

where's the report button? :-)

[AJCopland]

The whole idea of "trying" doesn't impress me, all kinds of idiots try all kinds of ridiculous things and loose their shirts in the process. They're fools.

Those who try often fail but those who never try never succeed

[AmigaHeretic]

Its a hobby community jorkany.  More choices within a hobby are usually beneficial, it gives people another way to explore their hobby, assuming they can afford it.

Ever hear of the guy in the desert?  He is on the edge of death from lack of water.  He comes to find a deserted well.  There is a bottle of water at the well and a note.  It's says the well has plenty of water, but in order to get the pump to work you need to prime it by poring the bottle of water into it to get it started.

So the guy is holding a bottle of water in his hand.  Does he trust the note?  

Drink the water or prime the pump?


Problem with drinking the water is you might feel good for a an hour our two, but then you are going to die.  If he primes the pumper, maybe the note was wrong and the well is dried up in which case he dies anyway.  But at least he has a chance of getting all the water he could need.


That's how I see the X1000.  Hyperion has a small amount of resources. (The bottle of water).   Do they take the short road and spend those resources on the X1000 knowing it might bring them temporary sells of 50 boards?  Or do the prime the pump(port to X86) finally, where, once ported they are no longer anchored down to $800+ boards.  They have all the cheap hardware they choose to port to.

Which is better for the community?

[ffastback]

Seems pretty foolish to me. Most folks I've known who had money like that to toss around didn't get there by making stupid investments.

Is it foolish to wager 10,000 USD on a single roulette bet?  If you are the average person yes, for two reasons.  #1 the odds were against you, #2 because you could not afford it.

Is it foolish for Bill Gates to do the same thing?  Sure, #1 still applies, but if you are Bill Gates and thats what gave him some brief enjoyment labeling him "foolish" in such a circumstance is really not a accurate label.  

None of us know how much 200,000 EUR is to Trevor in his world and his life.  Assuming for a second he did not inherit his money one can probably be pretty safe in assuming he is either of at least decent intelligence and/or he had luck with him in life.  Telling an interviewer straight up "I'll be happy if we break even" and telling them that Amiga has been an obsession in his life (he said he has over 150 in his basement if memory serves) seems to suggest he had 200,000 EUR he was willing to risk for a dream and that he is at least realistic enough to not expect a profit.  Frankly I think he should expect a sizable loss.  But it seems that his dream may have blinded him a bit.  But so what?  Its his 200,000 EUR and its his dream.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a computer costing over 2000 dollars running AOS 4 on yesterdays tech with an out of production processor isn't going to be profitable nor is it something that's going to "carry the platform forward".

It also does not take a genius to know that AmigaOS does not take the same resources to run in a snappy fashion as many other operating systems do.  And it does not take much to "carry the platform forward" when the "platform" is a hobby OS for a very small group of enthusiasts.  Measuring success in the way you might measure success for Windows is lunacy.  Sure, some find it amusing to do so in order to troll, but its ridiculous on its face.

The whole idea of "trying" doesn't impress me, all kinds of idiots try all kinds of ridiculous things and loose their shirts in the process. They're fools. The folks at A-Eon are a little bit more than fools though, -MODERATED-.

Its their shirts to lose and without either of us knowing Trevor's finances in total we have no way of knowing if this will devastate his financial life or be a small blip, or anything in between.  And on what basis do you say Trevor is a criminal (or that there is the "hint" that he is one)?

Their bizarre marketing scheme was designed to appeal to suckers in the community who don't know jack about hardware or software design and development.

I have not seen anyone suckered.  It seems many that are interested want bragging rights for the most powerful AmigaOne hardware ever.  If they think thats worth over 1500 GBP God Bless!  Others hope their support will encourage development of 64 bit and multi-core support some day and are willing to pay a hefty premium to assist in that goal.  Others heard of the video playback issues with some SAMs and want to make sure to avoid all that with better speced hardware.  Some might even be speculating that this machine will become a collector's item that they could turn into a quick profit in a year or two.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven and I can't wait to see it wrapped in a plastic bag and tossed in a compactor.

How does this "stink to high heaven" and "hint of criminality" when you say they are certain to suffer a horrible loss as a business?  If the goal was to rip off people they have a very poor gameplan.

[ffastback]

Ever hear of the guy in the desert?  He is on the edge of death from lack of water.  He comes to find a deserted well.  There is a bottle of water at the well and a note.  It's says the well has plenty of water, but in order to get the pump to work you need to prime it by poring the bottle of water into it to get it started.

So the guy is holding a bottle of water in his hand.  Does he trust the note?  

Drink the water or prime the pump?


Problem with drinking the water is you might feel good for a an hour our two, but then you are going to die.  If he primes the pumper, maybe the note was wrong and the well is dried up in which case he dies anyway.  But at least he has a chance of getting all the water he could need.


That's how I see the X1000.  Hyperion has a small amount of resources. (The bottle of water).   Do they take the short road and spend those resources on the X1000 knowing it might bring them temporary sells of 50 boards?  Or do the prime the pump(port to X86) finally, where, once ported they are no longer anchored down to $800+ boards.  They have all the cheap hardware they choose to port to.

Which is better for the community?

I'm already not anchored down to $800+ boards for this hobby, neither is the community.  Its called iMica.  If someone is tethered to it having to be branded "AmigaOS" to use it, well thats their problem.

I personally get a kick out of funky hardware.  My used G3 Peg II was not intrinsically worth the $500 I paid for it.  But I enjoy having it to play around with two hobby operating systems, MorphOS, and AOS.

Hyperion has been quite clear in its attitude that they don't give a crap about going to x86, no matter how many people ask for it.  Thats their choice, its their business.  If they are happier servicing folks willing to spend premiums on PPC hardware thats up to them.

What you should be asking yourself is not why Hyperion won't do what you want, but rather why does the community not en masse support the option already there for x86.

[B00tDisk]

What you should be asking yourself is not why Hyperion won't do what you want, but rather why does the community not en masse support the option already there for x86.

Good point.  I myself have heard a myriad of comments from people including but not limited to: the x86 is "less fun", that it's "old technology", that Intel is somehow an evil company for producing a CPU that MS (excuse me, M$...) can put Windows on (Xbox360 is PPC powered - is it now evil, too?), down to "the number of x86 boards and hardware can't be supported", "OS4 will drown in piracy"...

not a single damn one of them makes sense but when you hit the wall of religious dogma there's no getting around it.  And that's all it is, religious dogma.  Not a single "no x86!  Ever!" argument holds a damn bit of water.  None.

[dammy]

And what does A-Eon get out of your imaginary deal here?

And BTW its $245160 USD at current exchange rates.  The article said 200,000 EURO.

I think we all know A-Eon has about a snowball's chance in hell to "break even" on $245160 USD (and counting).  But whats the point about imagining about them giving the money away on purpose?

And why such a slave to the brand?  Run AROS if you want x86.

So what was their point in investing that type of money for mobo sales in the triple digits with low triple digit sales likely?

[dammy]

Its a hobby community jorkany.  More choices within a hobby are usually beneficial, it gives people another way to explore their hobby, assuming they can afford it.

Sure, if your goal is for "Amiga" to transition from a group of hobby systems and into a competitive role with other computing platforms as actual working platforms then anything taking people away from AROS on any level is bad news.  Realistically though people in general are entrenched and are not going to unite under AROS.  And so the X1000 is another option for hobbyists to play at their hobby.  How can that be bad?

Is sure not being hyped as a hobby.

[AmigaHeretic]

I'm already not anchored down to $800+ boards for this hobby, neither is the community.  Its called iMica.  If someone is tethered to it having to be branded "AmigaOS" to use it, well thats their problem.

I personally get a kick out of funky hardware.  My used G3 Peg II was not intrinsically worth the $500 I paid for it.  But I enjoy having it to play around with two hobby operating systems, MorphOS, and AOS.

Hyperion has been quite clear in its attitude that they don't give a crap about going to x86, no matter how many people ask for it.  Thats their choice, its their business.  If they are happier servicing folks willing to spend premiums on PPC hardware thats up to them.

What you should be asking yourself is not why Hyperion won't do what you want, but rather why does the community not en masse support the option already there for x86.

I hear you on AROS.   I use AROS as my main alternative OS.  I'm programming a couple of projects for AROS.   AROS Tetris is going to blow peoples minds!  ;-)

My post is referring to OS4 though.  I think AROS is in good shape.   Personally I think all that is said about not going to x86 for OS4 applies to MorphOS as well.  Though between their current choices of OS4 using custom hardware and MorphOS reusing old MAC hardware, I think the MorphOS is a better short term solutions out of those two.  However, I think they both need to move to x86.

[the_leander]

Though between their current choices of OS4 using custom hardware and MorphOS reusing old MAC hardware, I think the MorphOS is a better short term solutions out of those two.  However, I think they both need to move to x86.

The man speaks truth.