Given x1000 news is everywhere.....but nonchalance prevails

[Methuselas]

Since so many of you people, regardless of your "camp", are incapable of listening to reason, I'll let someone else spell it out for you:

All these years, all this time
We have been messing with your mind
you thought us, noble, rad and true
You just don’t have a fucking clue

All the humor, pun, and wit
A heaping, steaming pile of shit
With a smile and a wink
We make believe our poop don’t stink

Rip the system, revolution
Adding fuel to your confusion
Gobble up the crap we feed you
We don’t really love and need you

We just want your cold hard cash
Get our hands into your stash
Now show up, listen, and behold
Finally the truth be told

We’re only in it for the money
To dip our fingers in your honey
We pretend to no end
We are bitches for your riches

Blindsided by audacity
Of a handsome crook from Germany
A million sheets of patient paper
Chronicle his every caper
 
You never had us figured out
Lend stature, relevance and clout
Even called us pioneers,
When really we were privateers

You reveled in our plagiarism
Joined into the organism
Your pompousness and indecorum
Spewed on every online forum

How you dribbled, how you drooled
Priceless how we had you fooled
We hijacked your bedazzled souls
For ransom to be paid in gold

We’re only in it for the money
To dip our fingers in your honey
We pretend to no end
We are bitches for your riches

We’re only in it for the gain
Sex and drugs, and rock and roll fame
To parade the charade
We are jammin' for your mammon
We’re only in it for the encore
We want it all, and then some more
Men of deeds for proceeds
Prime booty is our duty

We just want your cold hard cash
Get our hands into your stash
Now show up, listen, and behold
Finally the truth be told

We’re only in it for returns
The greased palm never burns
Can’t get enough to stuff
The orifice of avarice

We’re only in it for the money
To dip our fingers in your honey
We pretend to no end
We are bitches for your riches

We are bitches for your riches


*  *  *

Sascha Konietzko wrote this about the "fans" of KMFDM, on how they never quite got the message and how they used the band for their own, personal "agendas", which caused a lot of negative press and liability concerning the band. Numerous times, KMFDM has been at the forefront of negative press concerning stupidity of ignorant individuals (Columbine is a good example), when all they wanted to do was create music.

I think this song is rather poignant, as if you actually read into the lyrics, you can see what's happened in Amiga-Land for the past 10 years. It all started with a truck driver, named Big Mac, who had no idea how to run a company, much less what the original Amiga could do. What he saw, was money and he attempted to bleed the disenfranchised of everything they had, in the name of hope.

*EVERY* camp has its own "agenda". They're going to bash, scratch and claw the others to prove they're the "chosen successor", when in reality not a single one of them is truly "Amigan". They all do it their own way, but lets be honest, each one has a little piece of the other in it, in some way or another. They're all siblings, mainly due to AROS, but ironically, AROS is considered the "red-headed stepchild" of the three "brothers".

The X1000 is a commercial failure. It's target audience is the developers, not the community whole and if you can't see that, you're blind. It's over-priced and I think the several complaints about it being "north of 1500" sums it up. I could give you people a rundown of supply and demand, Marketing and Economics 101, but it's a waste of breath on my part, as the majority of you wouldn't even listen and I hate wasting my time.

So continue to fight, continue to brag about your sub-par OS being "the best", continue to spend exorbitant amounts of money on a "hobby", knowing each party has their grubby, little fingers in the pot as much as possible, bleeding you for very little in return and most of all continue to make me come here, to quietly laugh at and mock you for your rose-colored glasses, because most of you are incapable of seeing the forest for the trees.

Enjoy!

PS - I'd like to point out, 'cos unlike some of you, I've been around here forever and pay attention to just about everything, that MorphOS was the original "successor" to OS3.9, when Big Mac took over. The reason it never happened was 'cos Genesi refused to brand the original Pegasos motherboard as "Amiga Only", intending to sell it as an alternative motherboard for "alternative" operating systems. That meant that Big Mac couldn't make any money off any Pegasos mobo that was sold with Linux.

Funny how no matter what, greed, subversion and guile always seem to play into the "future" (however pathetic that may be) of the Amiga......


:laughing:

[coldfish]

Meanwhile, let the maniacs rant.

I'm just glad that somebody is trying to do something in the Amiga community.  
Whether anyone buys their product is another question.

[Methuselas]

Meanwhile, let the maniacs rant.

I'm just glad that somebody is trying to do something in the Amiga community.  
Weather anyone buys their product is another question.

"whether".

[orb85750]

Well, at least the Amiga name is no longer associated with empty sport stadium endorsement promises.  Yes, actual computers with actual OS..... Some progress has been made here.

[runequester]

Funny how no matter what, greed, subversion and guile always seem to play into the "future" (however pathetic that may be) of the Amiga......


:laughing:

So all the more reason to support AROS

[itix]

@B00tDisk

Old apps and tools usually run without problems but old games indeed dont.

[takemehomegrandma]

The last thing we need is ARM motherboards running OS4. Why waste time porting to trumped up controller board CPUs totally unsuitable for top-end hardware?

You mean like the Sam440/Sam460?

The ARM CPU used in the Efika MX Smartbook and the Efika MX Open Client should beat the crap out of the 440EP used in the Sam, so it has no reason to be ashamed.

Much is happening on the ARM front right now, much new stuff is coming, performance is increasing all the time, and even multi-core is being introduced.

The Efika MX CPU, the i.MX51, will soon have a big brother, the i.MX53. It's everything the i.MX51 is, but it does incorporate acceleration for 1080p instead of "only" 720p:



I surely wouldn't mind having MorphOS on this.

But I think it will go x86 instead, which I don't mind either!

[dammy]

That the machine is actually something like an Amiga, and not just a bunch of off the shelf parts :madashell:

What's worse, a bunch of off the shelf parts or a bunch of off the shelf parts for a embedded CPU (aka SoC)?

[DAX]

@dammy
If we look at how the HW world changed from 1980, I believe the X1000 is as "Amiga" as it gets from a HW standpoint.

Fabled chipsets are no more (even Commodore engineers and J.Miner himself suggested expandability without any chip sets) , replaced by what engineers do on GPUs today, moreover we are entering the era of heterogeneous computing and the X1000 lends itself well to this concept by allowing integer crounching power expansions via XMP and Floating Point expansions via GP-GPU (yes both not avaialble at this stage, but considering the actual software doesn't need much power it is only an option for the future).

Nemo is no off-the shelf mobo, it took a lot of effort to develop, you can read about it here (from page two).

As for the rest, yes, you get off the shelf components with some Amiga customization on them, which is a good move at this early stage.

[dammy]

@dammy
If we look at how the HW world changed from 1980, I believe the X1000 is as "Amiga" as it gets from a HW standpoint.

With an embedded (SoC) CPU?  It's the anti-Amiga 1000 then.

Fabled chipsets are no more (even Commodore engineers and J.Miner himself suggested expandability without any chip sets) , replaced by what engineers do on GPUs today, moreover we are entering the era of heterogeneous computing and the X1000 lends itself well to this concept by allowing integer crounching power expansions via XMP and Floating Point expansions via GP-GPU (yes both not avaialble at this stage, but considering the actual software doesn't need much power it is only an option for the future).

Nemo is no off-the shelf mobo, it took a lot of effort to develop, you can read about it here (from page two).

As for the rest, yes, you get off the shelf components with some Amiga customization on them, which is a good move at this early stage.

But there is nothing on the A1X1K's mobo that someone else couldn't design and sell.  It's a collection of standard mobo parts for a SoC CPU.  So what hardware on the A1X1K has "amiga customization" on it, the ATI gfx card has some extra Amiga logic circuits on it?  how about the RAM, extra Amiga logic circuits or chaches?  How about the disk drives, special Amiga caches on them?  Adding decals or silk screening does not make them customized in my book, just rebadged.

[DAX]

With an embedded (SoC) CPU?  It's the anti-Amiga 1000 then.



But there is nothing on the A1X1K's mobo that someone else couldn't design and sell.  It's a collection of standard mobo parts for a SoC CPU.  So what hardware on the A1X1K has "amiga customization" on it, the ATI gfx card has some extra Amiga logic circuits on it?  how about the RAM, extra Amiga logic circuits or chaches?  How about the disk drives, special Amiga caches on them?  Adding decals or silk screening does not make them customized in my book, just rebadged.

Soc is an intelligent way of integrating memory controllers and other circuits inside the CPU, and quite frankly, it's the way of the future, Intel is going the same route adding stuff "inside" the CPU all the time and Soc is their future as well (if you care to disagree call their engineers and explain them why everything should stay separate instead).
In the X1000, the CPU should probably be this one check the whole paper and you will see it is quite similar to other very modern designs: LINK

As for "there is nothing" on the mobo that other could not manifacture and sell, I disagree 2 folds, the first is that the way Xena/XMP and system communicate is a proprietary design Verisys will patent for sure, moreover there will be no home computer as "different" as this one from any manufacturer, which also includes the fact of using a PPC CPU in a newly born Home Computer (if you know of a project feel free to fill me in).

Basically it is as different as it gets for modern standards, the reasons of why this is the case are further explained below).

The second point is that my A2000 uses a ton of off the shelf parts too (the case was even recycled from another C= project) there is not a special part inside that could not be manufactured by other vendors if we exclude the obsolete OCS. The curious thing is that J Miner himself replyed that for pro apps on his 2 A2000s he needed RTG cards and couldn't understand why they didn't do anything like it in the A4000 (in a famous old interview at CES) OCS/AGA were already obsolete in 1992 and AAA was admitted to be as being too little too late.
Commodore engineers wrote a long paper as to how Amiga would develop after AAA and if you read it you will see the X1000 is what they describe (I kid you not).

[the_leander]

Soc is an intelligent way of integrating memory controllers and other circuits inside the CPU, and quite frankly, it's the way of the future, Intel is going the same route adding stuff "inside" the CPU all the time and Soc is their future as well (if you care to disagree call their engineers and explain them why everything should stay separate instead).
In the X1000, the CPU should probably be this one check the whole paper and you will see it is quite similar to other very modern designs: LINK

For the Atom and to a lesser extent their i3/i5 chips yes, more things are being shifted over into the cpu. However, these are primarily aimed at the desktop/nettop/netbook markets. The PA6T was designed from the start as an embedded microcontroller along the same lines as the ARM and MIPS families.

As for "there is nothing" on the mobo that other could not manifacture and sell, I disagree 2 folds, the first is that the way Xena/XMP and system communicate is a proprietary design Verisys will patent for sure, moreover there will be no home computer as "different" as this one from any manufacturer (if you know of a project or if you know why another company might create such a system feel free to fill me in).

Basically it is as different as it gets for modern standards.

I'm sorry what? A bit of glue logic that anyone with access to an fpga prototyping kit could knock up in a few weeks? That's your argument? Dear gods sir you need to lay off of whatever the hell it is you've been huffing. It shares the vast majority of its arch with a bog standard PC. It has a circa 2002 desktop performance SoC sat on top running the show at heavy duty workstation/gaming rig prices.

Commodore engineers wrote a long paper as to how Amiga would develop after AAA and if you read it you will see the X1000 is what they describe (I kid you not).

Only if you're blind. I've read the paper, it includes a move to double up the AAA chipset, adding PCI in place of Zorro and using a PA-RISC cpu.

In short a road map to use as much off the shelf gear as possible as a means to keep down costs associated with development. Note too that AmigaOS was EOL. Commodore were going to be running WindowsNT on those PA-RISC boards.

At no point was PPC a feature on C='s roadmap.

If they had survived long enough to follow that road map and were still around today, they would have ended up being just another beige box x86 supplier as HP dropped the PA-RISC some time back in response to Intels request for the adoption of the abortive Itanium cpu.

[Amiga_Nut]

You mean like the Sam440/Sam460?

The ARM CPU used in the Efika MX Smartbook and the Efika MX Open Client should beat the crap out of the 440EP used in the Sam, so it has no reason to be ashamed.

Much is happening on the ARM front right now, much new stuff is coming, performance is increasing all the time, and even multi-core is being introduced.

The Efika MX CPU, the i.MX51, will soon have a big brother, the i.MX53. It's everything the i.MX51 is, but it does incorporate acceleration for 1080p instead of "only" 720p:

I surely wouldn't mind having MorphOS on this.

But I think it will go x86 instead, which I don't mind either!

New Amiga hardware for me is something that runs OS4 which ARM will never do. And ARM is for lower spec machines in todays 4/8 core desktop machines, hell G5 from half a decade ago is more powerful than the most powerful ARM CPU in development.

If a new Amiga top end model can not exist to compete with £800 DIY i7 gaming rigs of today even on performance alone then I won't be getting my credit card out to support anyone as it's obsolete before launch. Same reason I wouldn't touch a Nintendo Wii with PS2 graphics even if it fell out my breakfast cereal packet.

In 2010 I don't want Amiga limited to doing what I was doing in 2006 on my bog standard Centrino laptop. And that's my requirement

[DAX]

For the Atom and to a lesser extent their i3/i5 chips yes, more things are being shifted over into the cpu. However, these are primarily aimed at the desktop/nettop/netbook markets. The PA6T was designed from the start as an embedded microcontroller along the same lines as the ARM and MIPS families.

Not at all, they already have designs with additional parts being integrated in the CPU for TOP models as well (and where do you think this continuous process will lead in the long run? at having everything separated again? get real please).

I'm sorry what? A bit of glue logic that anyone with access to an fpga prototyping kit could knock up in a few weeks? That's your argument? Dear gods sir you need to lay off of whatever the hell it is you've been huffing. It shares the vast majority of its arch with a bog standard PC. It has a circa 2002 desktop performance SoC sat on top running the show at heavy duty workstation/gaming rig prices.

A 2Ghz CPU has the same benchs as a similarly clocked Core2Duo (as posted by Karlos) if you had that power in 2002 lucky you.
And the Nemo board is still the most "different" motherboard you will ever see in a personal computer from today to eternity, might as well like that a little bit?
 

Only if you're blind. I've read the paper, it includes a move to double up the AAA chipset, adding PCI in place of Zorro and using a PA-RISC cpu.

In short a road map to use as much off the shelf gear as possible as a means to keep down costs associated with development. Note too that AmigaOS was EOL. Commodore were going to be running WindowsNT on those PA-RISC boards.

At no point was PPC a feature on C='s roadmap.

I don't remember anything about PC-Risc and doubling of AAA, which means you are referring to something earlier.

If they had survived long enough to follow that road map and were still around today, they would have ended up being just another beige box x86 supplier as HP dropped the PA-RISC some time back in response to Intels request for the adoption of the abortive Itanium cpu.

probably x86 and like Fujitsu and Sharp in Japan, they would have adopted windows as well, that's why the X1000 it's not bad considering what happened.

[mongo]

The PA6T was designed from the start as an embedded microcontroller along the same lines as the ARM and MIPS families.

No it wasn't. It was designed for desktop and server applications.

You don't typically use a 2+ GHz multi-core CPU as an embedded microcontroller.

[Amiga_Nut]

Commodore engineers wrote a long paper as to how Amiga would develop after AAA and if you read it you will see the X1000 is what they describe (I kid you not).

To be fair all Commodore decided was AAA was a waste of money and would yield terrible price/performance ratio. Whatever else is written in this paper is limited to technology available at the time. This is a no brainer, two of the most powerful consoles use standard GPUs from either Nvidia or ATI. If Microsoft can't afford funding magic custom chipsets then nobody can

However, had Commodore had the intelligence to dig up VRAM Ranger and forget about AAA/Hombre and other DRAM based crap they could have wiped the floor with the competition in 1990 let alone 1993 when AGA was around.

I remember quite specifically the most powerful video cards for PC were the Diamond Stealth units, specifically the VRAM models. If that's what VRAM did for crappy ISA bus systems in the mid 90s just think how sophisticated a computer designed around a VRAM chipset like Ranger would be. And this was completed in 1987 because Jay Miner said so in interviews.

As for the rest, Commodore never should have considered anything other than PowerPC end of story, in the early 90s PPC was the spiritual successor to 68k series in terms of power (RISC based) and price compared to 32bit Pentium CPUs....the first line of which were pretty damned lame until at least MMX was out. The protracted stupidity of contemplating anything other than x86 or PPC was typical Commodore.....and it sent out a message to the Wintel/Apple world "we are clueless twats still grappling what CPU to use on a replacement for our ageing architecture let alone a complete design"

As for the A2000, don't mention that pile of junk as anything other than typical Commodore cockup. 30 months after A1000 all that we got was A1000 chipset and some slot connectors. Great...the issue was more colours...more sound channels....faster blitting...faster stock CPU like 14mhz 020 mated to chipset DMA on the motherboard.
What was Not wanted was ISA slots and a breathed on A1000 68k design with ROMs not WOM. Ditto for A500...another disaster thanks to some clueless moron at Commodore sacking Los Gatos engineers and hiring clueless teams from West Chester and C= GMBH to design A500 and A2000. No TV modulator, not even an on/off switch on the actual computer for the A500. And one of the ugliest cases ever designed second only to the CD32 probably. Nice.