Given x1000 news is everywhere.....but nonchalance prevails

[runequester]

The last thing we need is ARM motherboards running OS4. G5 is fine, only the price is not. Why waste time porting to trumped up controller board CPUs totally unsuitable for top-end hardware?
 
The only two modern CPU options are IBM CELL/Xenon (for a semblance of PPC compatibility) or x86 and a reference design system with complete rewrite of OS4. Like it or lump it those are the only two modern CPU families worth a damn for 'new' hardware designs costing 4 figure sums.
 
The first thing the x1000 designers should have done is contact IBM to discuss their fantastic range of PPC compatible modern CPUs

well, we're not talking about top-end hardware. The various *miga (is that the new term? I like it) options all run on pretty modest hardware.
The benefit of ARM would be small designs which could give us all sorts of interesting compact machines, very low cost and easy accesibility.
 
x86 would be great too, but then, might as well just pour the development time and money into AROS to amp that up more.

[desiv]

That's your opinion. Many don't share it.

What's your definition of "many" in this instance?  ;-)
And I don't mean how many people like MorphOS, I mean of those, how many consider it Amiga?

I like MorphOS..  It's very kual..  But it's not Amiga...  
Inspired by..  Yes.  Partially compatible with, yes...

Even the MorphOS web page says:

The project's  original goal was to create a new operating system...

It's a new OS.
Yes, it can run on some PPC equipped Amigas, but I can run SuSE Linux on a 68K Mac, that doesn't make the OS a Mac OS...  It's still Linux...

MorphOS is very nice..  Great work..  I hope it succeeds..  But it's not Amiga...

(Bringing it back on topic..)
The same way that the X1000 could be very kual (if expensive.. :-), but to me.. still not Amiga...

IMHO
Then again, I don't consider OSX to be Mac anymore..  :-)

It seems the market for something like the X1000 is getting smaller and smaller..
It's not Amiga fans, but a subset of...  Some (many?  :-) don't think PPC is Amiga.
So, of the Amiga fans that aren't concerned about CPU as a definition of their Amiga, the X1000 is aimed at them, but only a subset of THOSE fans..  Of those fans, only a smaller subset are willing to pay the prices asked/required for a souped up custom hardware based platform with the Amiga name on it...

AND, a percentage of those aren't going to like it because.. well they just don't like it because..  ;-)  So, it's that remaining subset that is apparently the market for the X1000...

Personally, the speed argument doesn't matter to me.  Is it too slow because it's numbers don't match a quad core Intel box?  All that matters to me is, how does it PERFORM when running it's OS?  If I can do everything I need to and it feel fast, then I won't care how many Mhz or cores I have..
But..  I (personally) can't justify spending that much on a computer...    I wish them luck tho..

desiv

[the_leander]

What's your definition of "many" in this instance?  ;-)
And I don't mean how many people like MorphOS, I mean of those, how many consider it Amiga?

I like MorphOS..  It's very kual..  But it's not Amiga...  
Inspired by..  Yes.  Partially compatible with, yes...

Which is the same boat that OS4 is in, since in the trial against Amiga.inc, they stated that there was no original code from the 3.x series as the assembler source they had was utterly useless. IIRC this was one of the key arguments that allowed them to continue to develop OS4.

So no matter which way you cut it, MorphOS is as much AmigaOS as OS4 is from a technical point of view. Then all that remains is to answer the question what is an Amiga?

[the_leander]

The benefit of ARM would be small designs which could give us all sorts of interesting compact machines, very low cost and easy accesibility.

Which would be almost entirely outweighed by the fact you'd still be dealing with very small production runs.
 

x86 would be great too, but then, might as well just pour the development time and money into AROS to amp that up more.

Now there is the voice of reason.

[runequester]

Which would be almost entirely outweighed by the fact you'd still be dealing with very small production runs.
 

You are probably right.
 
 

Now there is the voice of reason.

All things considered, AROS may well be the sanest way forward.

[kolla]

Now there is the voice of reason.

Reason always loses in amiga land. MorphOS developers tend to belittle AROS, claim that it is messy, that it has no apps, that it is mostly broken etc. Yet, where did they go when they needed to get rid of the need for OS3.1 binaries?

MorphOS on old mac hardware might be fun a couple of more years, but not much more. Also, with the lack of modernization of the OS itself, it gets less and less interesting to run MorphOS rather than just using UAE on whatever modern OS there is. So where is MorphOS going?

[haywirepc]

Aros is the sanest way forward if you ask me. Now it supports catweasel, so you can read and write amiga floppy disks... The integrated 68k apps are awesome... Its really coming along, and you can pretty much pick any pc computer from then trash, then spend about 50$ on a supported video card, network card and sblive...and your all set.
 
2000-2500$ for some obscure power pc motherboard, badly designed ugly case/keyboard and mouse with stickers on it is insane.
 
My current aros box, a 3ghz machine with 4 gigs of ram will run rings around the x1000 joke, running blender, lightwave, or any processor intensive task, I guarentee it will have faster render times. Total cost of that machine - about 150-200$ total, all parts bought on ebay.
 
2500$ to use the same type of interface/software is insane.
I'd be surprised if they sold 50 units. I do wish them well, I just
think their efforts are misguided and counter productive to their aims.
 
Steven

[halvliter'n]

AROS is no way to go. As long as it is on a normal WinPC, it will never have the special properties Amiga had.

edit: The same  applies to MOS.

[the_leander]

Reason always loses in amiga land. MorphOS developers tend to belittle AROS, claim that it is messy, that it has no apps, that it is mostly broken etc. Yet, where did they go when they needed to get rid of the need for OS3.1 binaries?

Much the same place Hyperion went when they needed a working USB stack I suspect.

MorphOS on old mac hardware might be fun a couple of more years, but not much more. Also, with the lack of modernization of the OS itself, it gets less and less interesting to run MorphOS rather than just using UAE on whatever modern OS there is. So where is MorphOS going?

Thing is I can see much the same argument being held against OS4.

[the_leander]

AROS is no way to go. As long as it is on a normal WinPC, it will never have the special properties Amiga had.

Hate to break this to you, but post newbus macs and the A1 and follow-on systems follow more or less the same basic architecture as a modern PC, the only difference with them is the CPU.

If you want those "special properties" with a modern twist your options are Minimig, CloneA and Natami.

[runequester]

Hate to break this to you, but post newbus macs and the A1 and follow-on systems follow more or less the same basic architecture as a modern PC, the only difference with them is the CPU.
 
If you want those "special properties" with a modern twist your options are Minimig, CloneA and Natami.

Is CloneA actually progressing at all these days ?

[halvliter'n]

@the leander
Well, I  like Natami. X1000 has some potential too,  but it is too expensive if it passes 1500EUR.

[the_leander]

Is CloneA actually progressing at all these days ?

Last I heard it was still being developed, however I have to admit to not really following it much, especially with the imminent release of the MiniMig-AGA.

@the leander
Well, I  like Natami. X1000 has some potential too,  but it is too expensive if it passes 1500EUR.

If by potential you mean potential to do anything other than bomb, then I fear you are in for a grave disappointment for the reasons outlined in one of my previous posts:

The question then becomes: Does OS4 offer enough incentive over and above something that can run UAE/Amithlon and OS3.9 as fast if not faster for a fraction of the cost? Hell even MorphOS running on a £40 eMac suddenly becomes a serious issue if you absolutely must have next gen software.

For a very select few that answer will be yes, I must have OS4, but even with this the X1000 has to compete against both the Sam440 and 460.

No matter how you try to paint it, the X1000 is in a very very weak position.

This machine is aimed at a hobbyist marketplace but at a cost usually associated with professional tools such as workstations. As a result you have anyone other than a zealot who will naturally compare what they would be getting with other offerings in the marketplace. In that light the X1000 compares very, very poorly.

For "north of £1500" you could get yourself a pretty sweet gaming laptop, a screaming fast gaming desktop or a pro workstation. Against such competition the X1000 simply doesn't cut it.

Again, this is only my opinion but I feel it is a fairly realistic assessment.

[halvliter'n]

Well  again, it is intended for future opportunities.

[klx300r]

I go for option no. 3. The prize is so high, because it has to last 25 years (like the A1000) !!! So, if you look at the prize per year, it's not so expensive.

:laughing:

I like that option too:laughing:

[the_leander]

Well  again, it is intended for future opportunities.

It might be because I'm tired, but I'm not getting this.

Could you please explain for me how circa 2002 performance hardware is intended for future opportunities?