How is OS4 ?

[spihunter]

Moderators!! please move this thread to Ann.lu circa 2003 or so.....

[redrumloa]

That kind of depends on what role a given cap has and how the machine has been used overall. Caps that just decouple audio aren't subject to the same stresses as those that are used in power stepping/regulation.
 
If the previous owner hasn't used the machine since he got his juiced up Xeon based Mac, the chances are suspect caps haven't yet reached failure. The second hand owner, if making this their main machine might end up having to bite on that one.

Most eMacs were sold to schools afaik, "e" standing for education. Mine certainly came from a school, it has plenty of miles on it. Still, if it fails the next one will probably even be cheaper than the $40 I paid.

[Crumb]

I'm sorry, but the above reasoning is just very silly. Better hardware or not, I'm pretty sure it wasn't the reason he had a Pegasos 2.

Call me old-fashioned, but if I was developing software for some target hardware, I'd pretty much want to have that hardware available to test it on during development.

That was around one year before it was decided if OS4 would see the light on Peg2.

[Crumb]

Even in the old days when I actually did some OS4 for classic beta-testing, I can't say it was sluggish, even running on AGA, let alone RTG: See here.

MorphOS is smoother than OS4 (with RTG obviously since AGA is not supported on MorphOS powerup). OS4 default settings are unfortunately too slow for AGA... solid window dragging is pathethic on AGA and should have been disabled as default. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DHpRYQj1hg

@framiga

I explained you that switching to OS3.x skin speeds up OS4 but whatever, MorphOS still works smoother on Classic hardware.

[Karlos]

That was around one year before it was decided if OS4 would see the light on Peg2.

What, and you suppose absolutely no experimentation into the feasibility of a version for Peg2 was done before it was announced? Come on.

OS4 default settings are unfortunately too slow for AGA... solid window dragging is pathethic on AGA and should have been disabled as default.

Using 256 colour highres/laced/scandoubled modes on AGA under any supported version of AmigaOS is painfully slow. period. You can't actually blame OS4 for that. It takes all of 2 seconds to disable solid window sizing/dragging. After which it's actually OK.

Or at least as OK as AGA is on 3.x.

[Crumb]

@Crumb
maybe you do need a Peg2 if you are developing an OS for it...

You fail to notice that the broken A1 was replaced by an unsupported machine instead of a Sam440. One year before the decission of porting to that platform was taken core os4 developer prefered using a non supported platform with unfinished drivers instead of Sam440. The testing lasted 3 months as maximum.

And I also see you enjoy 2004/2007 a lot, negating all progress AmigaOS HW and SW has made since your early alphas (what progress? everything is still 1000% identical to OS-0.5,

OS4.1 is an early alpha? OS4 HW hasn't progressed much in 5 years, in fact Sam440 has been a step back compared to Peg2. Software wise there are many cosmetic changes but little deep changes (swap memory is one of the most noticeable although it was possible with 3rd party apps on OS3.x, we are still waiting auto stack enlargement and gfx core rewrite)

and Aos4.5 will be more or less on par with 1.0, if that!!! ) but as I said many times, your blabbering is irrelevant to end-users.

I wonder if you have ever done any constructive post in any thread at amiga.org. It looks like you just have joined amiga.org to spread your blabbering and red troll propaganda.

Get over it, and most of all, the time Aos slept are finished, you will see upgrade upon upgrades from now on both software and HW side, you better start getting acquainted to this new situation...

It seems you live in a candy coloured parallel reality. HW and SW side OS4 is 10 years in the past. Hyperion had the chance to design new APIs or at least port their OS to mainstream hardware so userbase would not shrink to a few users. They failed.

[Framiga]

MorphOS is smoother than OS4 (with RTG obviously since AGA is not supported on MorphOS powerup). OS4 default settings are unfortunately too slow for AGA... solid window dragging is pathethic on AGA and should have been disabled as default. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DHpRYQj1hg

@framiga

I explained you that switching to OS3.x skin speeds up OS4 but whatever, MorphOS still works smoother on Classic hardware.

if this make you feel better, ok then ...

[Framiga]

MorphOS is smoother than OS4 (with RTG obviously since AGA is not supported on MorphOS powerup). OS4 default settings are unfortunately too slow for AGA... solid window dragging is pathethic on AGA and should have been disabled as default. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DHpRYQj1hg

LOL ... unbelievable! your posting a test with a BPPC @160 Mhz with 64 megs of ram on AGA ... what a delusion!, i thought you were a much more correct person/user! whatsup lately mos guys? the Timberwolf thing is hard to swallow? wasn't "pratically impossible to port"? are you all a bit "nervous"?

ah, btw .... since you are going so "low" ... mos OWB 1.8 port IS un-useable under Classic, much more advanced than the OS4 one (thats perfectly useable on classic btw) but NOT useable (3 pages and you are out of mem!)

Nobodys' perfect .... face it

[Karlos]

@Framiga

The AGA demo was in response to my claim that OS4 classic wasn't that bad even on AGA. On my 240MHz BPPC with a sensible 16-colour PAL interlace (externally FF'd) display, it wasn't. At least no worse than the same display on OS3.x.

[Framiga]

@Framiga

The AGA demo was in response to my claim that OS4 classic wasn't that bad even on AGA. On my 240MHz BPPC with a sensible 16-colour PAL interlace (externally FF'd) display, it wasn't. At least no worse than the same display on OS3.x.

yes i know ... i've messed up a bit with quoting :-)

[Fab]

LOL ... unbelievable! your posting a test with a BPPC @160 Mhz with 64 megs of ram on AGA ... what a delusion!, i thought you were a much more correct person/user! whatsup lately mos guys? the Timberwolf thing is hard to swallow? wasn't "pratically impossible to port"? are you all a bit "nervous"?

ah, btw .... since you are going so "low" ... mos OWB 1.8 port IS un-useable under Classic, much more advanced than the OS4 one (thats perfectly useable on classic btw) but NOT useable (3 pages and you are out of mem!)

Nobodys' perfect .... face it

I got very different reports from other mos pup and os4 users, by the way. And it doesn't use more memory than OS4 OWB at runtime, for your information (probably even less, in fact, since i fixed some leaks, but there are so many in webkit, anyway). But in the end, i'd rather say both are unusable on classic, because of speed and memory usage.

And regarding timberwolf, there's nothing to swallow, really. An half-assed port of something that should only have required one month to port has nothing really appealing. OWB (even for OS4) probably required much more work, since the GUI had to be written from scratch, in addition to the usual layers like memory/thread/file/events/network/graphics... In timberwolf case, the whole UI is based on the graphics layer, which means it's just much less work to port.

[Karlos]

And regarding timberwolf, there's nothing to swallow, really. An half-assed port of something that should only have required one month to port has nothing really appealing.

If that really were the case, how come nobody else has actually bothered in all the years the bounty was up?

OWB (even for OS4) probably required much more work, since the GUI had to be written from scratch, in addition to the usual layers like memory/thread/file/events/network/graphics... In timberwolf case, the whole UI is based on the graphics layer, which means it's just much less work to port.

It seems that the GUI is the most problematic part of the current alpha version. At present, I'm inclined to believe that WebKit might be easier to manage since it's no doubt a lot cleaner code wise than gecko is.

[Fab]

If that really were the case, how come nobody else has actually bothered in all the years the bounty was up?

It's not really a relevant question. The persons who tried either did it before the cairo switch, or were just incompetent.

It seems that the GUI is the most problematic part of the current alpha version. At present, I'm inclined to believe that WebKit might be easier to manage since it's no doubt a lot cleaner code wise than gecko is.

I've tried it. From what i can see, the most problematic part seems to reside in events propagation and subwindows in particular, which gives all kind of funny bugs in dropdown menus, lists and so on. But the pure graphic (draw) part shouldn't be a problem at all, at least when the cairo implementation works properly, which is probably not the case when using the new os4 hardware-accelerated surfaces (cf. glitches when scrolling, black areas, overlapping/bad clipping and so on).

And i had a look at FireFox 3.5 sources. It looked separated enough for a clean port, at least. Most layers implementations looked fairly straightforward (just as webkit). The only thing that scared me a bit was the network layer, because of bsdsocket limitations that could easily complicate the implementation.

[Andre.Siegel]

If that really were the case, how come nobody else has actually bothered in all the years the bounty was up?

Mozilla has certainly evolved since Amizilla had been initiated all those years ago. These changes most likely affected how easy it is to port the software.

One issue with the bounty effort was that the requirements were simply unrealistic and sometimes misguided. As has been mentioned previously, the Firefox user interface is entirely separate from the native OS GUI. This also means it is rather odd to suggest in the bounty requirements that developers should focus on OS3.x and MUI. Obviously, MUI could only be used if you tried to replace the native Firefox UI which sounds like a ton of work for little gain...

[klx300r]

in a nutshell it's still fun to use and thats why I love using it daily!  Os4.1 Update 2 is very stable and has come a long way from when I bought the beta release that came with my Samflex.   along with the next update
  I am tickled silly that i run my favourite 68k games by just clicking on the icon using glUAE:)..I do some serious spreadsheet work with GNumeric under AmiCygnix, while listening to tunes on TuneNet, check all my emails via SimpleMail,do all my internet stuff with OWB and now (YAY) TimberWolf...with OpenOffice and new games showing up weekly now it's great and I can only imagine AmigaOS getting stronger with the release of the X1000:afro:

[utri007]

I allways find irritating how MorpOS guys allways attack every OS4 thread, even when it is purely OS4 here in amiga.org

OS4 hobbyits doesn't do that for MorphOS threads, I think that is safe to say that OS4 guys have generally betters manners.

It is allso safe to say, that generally that OS4 users aren't intrested about MorphOS , when MorphS boys and girls seems to be quite intersted about OS4 and I think that tells quite lot about MorphOS.

Interested because they read every single thread about OS4