How is OS4 ?

[Karlos]

It's worth noting that some eMacs were among the machines affected by the "capacitor plague"

http://macosx.com/topics/emac-capacitors.html

[Crumb]

That's not a definition of a quick'n'dirty port. A quick and dirty port refers to a port done in a limited time, without a good quality check of the port and  leaving bugs mostly untouched.

The time invested depends on coder's skills and OS knowledge. e.g.: Itix could port software X in one week and it would take me two months to do the same. Despiting time factor the rest applies to x11 ports: no good quality checks, most of original bugs remain untouched (even new ones are added) and no use of host OS functions.

You cannot judge poor an X11 port, since by its nature it will feel alien compared to its host window manager.

we are not just talking about window managers, gaim would feel alien even if you used amiga window frames. Using an Amiga skin doesn't suddenly turn your x11 software into amiga software

In this case the port has a good integration with Workbench within its limits, just check the work that has been done to get the gadget graphics as similar as possible with OS4's one.

Then just use any random OS (e.g. Windows with WindowBlinds) with some Workbench skin and be happy. AtheOS had Amiga-like gadgets and there were some x11 window managers that mimicked WB but that won't turn gtk into mui.

Regarding unstability I can only speak of my own experience, at least AbiWord and Gnumeric run pretty stable on my system.

"ls" also runs pretty stable on all amigas yet it doesn't feel native because it doesn't use amiga arguments.

And still, being a port you can't really judge on stability,

what?!

unless you pretend that a port in order to be a good one must have fixed all the stability bugs of the original code.

I assume coder won't be silly and will avoid bleeding edge unstable versions. If code runs stable in other platform it should do so if the port is properly done.

And for the last part, what part of these ports make you feel them unfinished?

X11

We talking here about how "useful" it can be, not about "useability" and "polishness". And yes, having to use keyboard to select menus doesn't make it less useful, since the plugin I'm using does the job well.

Lynx is also perfectly "useful" too.

I'm still interested to know how have you found the information that all the SDL ports have been made by just typing "make". The part that they usually run better on other platform is IMHO not true: it is true for those programs that require more CPU power than the available one on current OS4 machines. But at the moment I can't recall a single SDL application that runs sluggish on my system.

SDL/X11 ports always run better in the original platform.

No, for that I would have asked you "how are Dunlop tires compared to other ones", while in this case it's a case of "I want to try Dunlop tires, how are they?" OP has even explicitely stated that he's not interested in a MOS comparison.

I disagree. And I think it's polite to reply you instead of ignoring you.

Efikas will never be again produced. Sam440 are still produced (and that has been confirmed by ACube, even if the 460 will enter production). I see a difference here.

BBRV always says that if you have an order for Genesi to build certain number of 512MB Efikas they will build them. Both products have warranty and Efikas can be built on demand I don't see much difference. In addition to that I think there are more chances of ACube going broke than Directron

Have you thought about how's the PowerPC CPUs market today in respect to 5 years ago, and have you taken in account that the major CPU buyer that existed 5 years ago isn't anymore a buyer these days?

I think ACube choosed wrong cpus, added unneeded stuff to motherboard like that fpga you can't program with freedom and added the mobility Radeon unneeded for embedded stuff. The choices they have made for 460 model look slightly better for embedded customers but are odd for desktop users.

Most Amiga users I know were waiting some fast G4 machine many years ago. Now it's funny because Hyperion partners avoided the use of Altivec (with the honorable exception of A1-XE G4), something that pissed almost all users I know. The situation looked brighter when Moana appeared but unfortunately Hyperion management decided to recover developing costs selling us expensive hardware instead of trying to sell many OS4 units and leaving users the choice of using 2nd hand hardware like Mac Mini/Powerbook or new hardware (like Sam440 or whatever thing they wanted to build)

They are enough to justify the release of a new platform, though.

Since some users are desperate to run OS4 they will buy almost everything you put on sale. But mind you, if you could buy Moana and run it on a 2nd hand Mac Mini many users would have been able to try out OS4. Now the number of users spending more than 500 Euros to get a substandard board that runs slower than 5-year old boards are pretty slim compared to the number of users they would have got if they also had released Moana.

They had their right to choose. At the time they had the choice to not buy A1 and OS4 if they felt that the hardware was too pricey.

Sure customers have right to choose, no one questions that. The problem is that customers who wanted to run OS4 had NO choice.

And I'll repeat my question: are PCI Express gfx cards incompatible with 4x lanes slots, and work only in 1x ones, to make you force to plug it in Sam460's 1x lanes slot?

AGPx1 speed would be sad.

What has ACube to do with MAI?

both are OS4 hardware producers Hyperion forces us to buy hardware from if we have some interest in OS4.

Regarding the tests, the question is if they have done enough tests for a releseable product, which neither you nor me can know. So you can't really say that SAMs are "prototypes" and "hardly tested".

But I can claim it hasn't gone through all the tests mainstream hardware goes through.

That still doesn't make your opinion as a general rule.

Well, most (u)A1 users I knew sold them to buy Peg2/G4. Also the ones I don't know in person. Even one of the Friedens used Peg2 as main machine one year before OS4.1 Peg2 release because it was better hardware than MAI/ACube.

[Golem!dk]

It's worth noting that some eMacs were among the machines affected by the "capacitor plague"

If you feel brave you could of course attempt to repair it yourself, the capacitors are cheap enough (do get some decent quality replacements) and if you have the soldering skills it might just work

[DAX]

@Crumb
maybe you do need a Peg2 if you are developing an OS for it...

And I also see you enjoy 2004/2007 a lot, negating all progress AmigaOS HW and SW has made since your early alphas (what progress? everything is still 1000% identical to OS-0.5, and Aos4.5 will be more or less on par with 1.0, if that!!! ) but as I said many times, your blabbering is irrelevant to end-users. Get over it, and most of all, the time Aos slept are finished, you will see upgrade upon upgrades from now on both software and HW side, you better start getting acquainted to this new situation...

[Karlos]

If you feel brave you could of course attempt to repair it yourself, the capacitors are cheap enough (do get some decent quality replacements) and if you have the soldering skills it might just work

Sure, but I would advise any normal end user to get someone with the requisite experience to do it for them.

Replacing SMD electrolytic capacitors in particular can be tricky. You either need the right tools or a pair of soldering irons and a steady hand. Even then, it's easy to lift the pads and traces off the board.

[Karlos]

@Crumb

Even one of the Friedens used Peg2 as main machine one year before OS4.1 Peg2 release because it was better hardware than MAI/ACube.

:lol:

I'm sorry, but the above reasoning is just very silly. Better hardware or not, I'm pretty sure it wasn't the reason he had a Pegasos 2.

Call me old-fashioned, but if I was developing software for some target hardware, I'd pretty much want to have that hardware available to test it on during development.

[Golem!dk]

Sure, but I would advise any normal end user to get someone with the requisite experience to do it for them.

Of course.

Replacing SMD electrolytic capacitors in particular can be tricky. You either need the right tools or a pair of soldering irons and a steady hand. Even then, it's easy to lift the pads and traces off the board.

Found this link with some images, looks doable.

[Karlos]

Of course.

Found this link with some images, looks doable.

I know old macs may be cheap second-hand but do you really want to have practise runs?

[Golem!dk]

I know old macs may be cheap second-hand but do you really want to have practise runs?

Maybe find something else to pracise on first then That's what I did when my Samsung TFT suffered from leaky caps.

[Framiga]

Sure, I remember old threads but there's nothing that requires special skills in making OS39/OS4/MOS work in the same hardware. I made the first MorphOS1.4.5 version work on a G-Rex 4000 and some time before OS4 Classic was released I convinced the Friedens to add an option so G-Rex would be ignored (so the user had the chance to use a ZorroIII gfx card -including Mediator or Prometheus- in addition to the G-Rex). Later Frank Mariak listened to the users like me that asked CV64/CV3D/PicassoIV support and he added it so I could test more hardware.

I also helped users to install both MorphOS and AmigaOS4 and even did a small install guide txt to install MorphOS powerup.

In addition to that I installed both OS4 & MorphOS on a pair of A1200 with Permedia2

When you boot OOTB MorphOS or OS4 just drag a window. On MorphOS it's silky smooth and on OS4 it's not (I'm talking about Permedia2, CV64, CV3D, PicassoIV and Voodoo3). If you adjust MUI skins and disable delays MorphOS flies (even if you compare it to OS4.x with basic OS3.x skin)

As a disadvantage you have to add that A1200 OS4 version doesn't have scsi support.

I also tested OS4 with RetinaZ3, Algor, Highway, Norway, Prometheus, Toccata, ConciertoIV, X-Surf...



You haven't stated which Ambient/MUI versions you are using or if your binaries are stripped. You haven't stated your settings either. I'll repeat: you must have some configuration problem because using modern Ambient and MUI4 it should go faster (at least all systems I have configured run faster than the same system with OS4).

if you had done the same tweaks on AOS4 too, you would get that AmigaOS4 for classic is way smoother than Morphos 1.4.5 ... but obviously you didn't! anyway is a moot point, beeing AmigaOS4 and morphos 1.4.5 for classic both dead.

[Karlos]

Even in the old days when I actually did some OS4 for classic beta-testing, I can't say it was sluggish, even running on AGA, let alone RTG: See here.

[redrumloa]

My god this thread is awful. I thought we'd grown up more than this by now...
 
FWIW, I prefer OS4 to MorphOS, but MorphOS is very good too.

 
Mud slinging from both sides... Then again it is no where near as personal as it was almost a decade ago. It was downright nasty back in 02-05ish.

[redrumloa]

It's worth noting that some eMacs were among the machines affected by the "capacitor plague"
 
http://macosx.com/topics/emac-capacitors.html

Meh, I've recapped a few machines in my life. I can recap this $40 eMac if need be.

[redrumloa]

I know old macs may be cheap second-hand but do you really want to have practise runs?

If they haven't failed by now, they are probably fine for another 15-20 years.

[Karlos]

If they haven't failed by now, they are probably fine for another 15-20 years.

That kind of depends on what role a given cap has and how the machine has been used overall. Caps that just decouple audio aren't subject to the same stresses as those that are used in power stepping/regulation.

If the previous owner hasn't used the machine since he got his juiced up Xeon based Mac, the chances are suspect caps haven't yet reached failure. The second hand owner, if making this their main machine might end up having to bite on that one.

[spihunter]

Moderators!! please move this thread to Ann.lu circa 2003 or so.....