How is OS4 ?

[rebraist]

For almost a year i've read all of you.
About a year ago I was considering to buy something "amigish", a sam, a peg or somethin'similar.
Naturally, as most of you, i come from the classic era, and as someone of you, never tried ppcs because amiga died, to me, with classic machines.
But my passion never died, so i followed on the internet amiga facts, forum and here we are.
With three (or perhaps four (beos-haiku), maybe five (anubi)?) amiga sons.
The black, the red, the blue.
Everyone of them is "amiga" in the eyes of their user.
Btw i'm an aros enthusiast, but i understand those who love the red, the blue, the yellow and the submarine.
These "os wars" are simply useless.
Simply because whazz amiga? A feeling?
Well, a feeling is something of individual, personal and there's no rational, logical reasons to be better or worse than others. To my eyes amiga is aros. Someone else would prefer aos4, someone else morphos, someone else uae. "This is feeling".
Amiga is an os? Well. If it is a brand, the only amiga os "eventually" is aos. No way to the others.
Amiga is hw? Well, the only hw amiga is that dead so long ago. The amiga one specs belong to a group who betrayed amigans expectations more and more and more.
The original amiga was feeling, os and hw.
Nothing else can tell the same of itself
Noone of them can say to be 20 years beyond their time
edit: i've forgotten "to me"

[Piru]

Okay, good answers to the questions. Probably you don't have experience with these, but I have and I know there are problems.

I didn't have any problems myself. Well maybe they've made it more user friendly? If they have that's certainly a good thing.

Piru, it seems when your OS of choise don't have VMM, nobody shall use it, even with that machine with only 128MB of RAM?

MorphOS had a virtual memory solution at some point, but it proved way too slow, complex and problem prone to be worth it. If you get an EFIKA you obviously have to live with the limited amount of memory. Even if you'd add a virtual memory solution it'd be really slow on EFIKA due to limited I/O performance. Latest MorphOS release does include some changes to make more memory available for the applications, however.

My machine have only 256 MB RAM.

Why's that? All my systems have minimum 1GB.

VMM came in handly when I compiled the SAM Coupe emulator.

Hmm? AmigaOS4 would run out of 256MB memory when compiling? That's odd. Is it because of the memory fragmentation or what?

For image processing VMM is even more handy.

Most certainly with such low amount of memory. Personally I'd just rather upgrade the memory than suffer the speed penalty of the swapping.

Also, you deliberately skipped some of my points, but seeing that your OS of choise lacks them, it is quite understandable

Weren't we comparing against AmigaOS 3.x? I skipped the entries where AmigaOS 4 obviously has an edge.

If we go for MorphOS comparison there's very little OS4 does better, while MorphOS beats OS4 most of the time, as proven by impartial 3rd party benchmarks.

[DAX]

Okay, good answers to the questions. Probably you don't have experience with these, but I have and I know there are problems.

You gave good reasons for using AmigaOS 4. Because on AmigaOS 3, nothing will happen when you try to do some of the tasks. So you will not do the work, where on AmigaOS 4 it will work impeccable.

On AmigaOS 4 everything is more elegant and transparent than on AmigaOS 3. It is more up to date with the current requirements for Operating System. That is why every AmigaOS 3 user will love AmigaOS 4.

Piru, it seems when your OS of choise don't have VMM, nobody shall use it, even with that machine with only 128MB of RAM? My machine have only 256 MB RAM. VMM came in handly when I compiled the SAM Coupe emulator. For image processing VMM is even more handy.

Also, you deliberately skipped some of my points, but seeing that your OS of choise lacks them, it is quite understandable. Good move actually.

If all 3.9 users cared for was the latest feature they would just stick with Win7 or  Snow leopard I'm afraid, but incidentally I believe all they demonstrated here is how AmigaOS4 is actually what passionate 3.9 users want when they upgrade, that being...AmigaOS of course, something they are already familiar with but that thanks to many updates (and the fact that it runs on faster PPC CPU), allows them to run modern apps such as Blender and Firefox along with their favorite software (being it with petunia or with other integration utilities) and that most of all, is still being developed and enhanced as we speak.

[drHirudo]

I didn't have any problems myself. Well maybe they've made it more user friendly? If they have that's certainly a good thing.

Of course it is. Upgrading the OS is about making it more user friendly too. It is all that small advantages that make AmigaOS 4 easier to use over AmigaOS 3 and many other operating systems. If it wasn't for all the small parts that make the OS, I would happily use ProDOS on Apple II and still do some work. Of coure with much more effort.

MorphOS had a virtual memory solution at some point, but it proved way too slow, complex and problem prone to be worth it. If you get an EFIKA you obviously have to live with the limited amount of memory. Even if you'd add a virtual memory solution it'd be really slow on EFIKA due to limited I/O performance. Latest MorphOS release does include some changes to make more memory available for the applications, however.

Good to know. Sometime I want to test application if it will suit me. If it requires too much memory, for a certain task, I still will be able to test it, thanks to VMM, without the need to close all other opened applications. Later I can decide if I need more RAM for this exact application. Without VMM on Efika, it will not simply slow down. It will not run, making the machine usage limited.

Why's that? All my systems have minimum 1GB.

Good for you. I have 256MB, because with the VMM, I did not had a reason to upgrade. In some rare situations VMM comes to the rescue, despite the slowdown, but after that, I continue to use my Amiga without problems. Of course the more memory, the better. I don't know what are your reasons for RAM upgrade, but if it was because your OS was not running something, the lack of feature is a limitation of the OS, not the hardware.

Hmm? AmigaOS4 would run out of 256MB memory when compiling? That's odd. Is it because of the memory fragmentation or what?

No, it's because of all the possible optimizations turned On. Plus all the test files saved in RAM:, plus some applications running in the background. You can easily run out of RAM in many situations.

Most certainly with such low amount of memory. Personally I'd just rather upgrade the memory than suffer the speed penalty of the swapping.

As I said, the penalty of swapping is very rare, to justify purchasing RAM upgrade.

Weren't we comparing against AmigaOS 3.x? I skipped the entries where AmigaOS 4 obviously has an edge.

Yes, we are. But you missed to admit that AmigaOS 4 have obvious advantage in these areas.

If we go for MorphOS comparison there's very little OS4 does better.

MorphOS is off-topic! (irrelevant)

[Piru]

But you missed to admit that AmigaOS 4 have obvious advantage in these areas.

I assumed that if I didn't give any counterargument it'd be kind of implicit.

MorphOS is off-topic!

MorphOS is OS of my choice, not AmigaOS 3.x. Misunderstanding there I guess.

[Britelite]

If we lived near I would show you my settings as described in the link i posted, I've done my fare share of side by side comparisons demonstrations (Sam+my trusty A2000 underneath) you would be surprised...(Chuck Rock, R-Type, Xenon 2 and more no difference whatsoever running side by side and played with the same joystick, a competition pro standard + USB version).

I've used UAE quite some bit (I use it for development), so I'm aware that's it's pretty ok. But still, nothing beats the real thing. And emulation (UAE and launchers) in itself is nothing AOS4-specific, so all the benefits are also available on other platforms (and especially on Windows with it's superior WinUAE).

[drHirudo]

I assumed that if I didn't give any counterargument it'd be kind of implicit.

I assumed not.

MorphOS is OS of my choice, not AmigaOS 3.x. Misunderstanding there I guess.

[/quote]
No. My initial comparasion was against AmigaOS 3.x. Then you said that nobody shall need VMM, and I pointed situations, when it will come handy. I assumed why you said that VMM is in no use - because your OS of choice lacks it. You confirmed it and confirmed the OS of your choice. I don't see misunderstading here.

[DAX]

I've used UAE quite some bit (I use it for development), so I'm aware that's it's pretty ok. But still, nothing beats the real thing. And emulation (UAE and launchers) in itself is nothing AOS4-specific, so all the benefits are also available on other platforms (and especially on Windows with it's superior WinUAE).

No wonder then on why you think so and i respect that. Still consider that all ex-amigans I invite here don't share your knowledge of cycle exact stuff (and similar details) and when they see a game running perfectly side by side, they just love it as they love the original. (their reactions are pretty amusing most of the time).
unless you were talking about that kind of satisfaction you get on actually owning/touching the phisical thing and owning/collecting original games, on which i agree even more (I'm a collector myself)

[Piru]

@drHirudo

No. My initial comparasion was against AmigaOS 3.x. Then you said that nobody shall need VMM, and I pointed situations, when it will come handy. I assumed why you said that VMM is in no use - because your OS of choice lacks it. You confirmed it and confirmed the OS of your choice. I don't see misunderstading here.

But earlier:

Also, you deliberately skipped some of my points, but seeing that your OS of choise lacks them

So applying double standards is a normal argument tool for you. Well it isn't for me. I find this method intellectually dishonest.

[tone007]

...either I'm really drunk, or this thread is flying by at a mile a minute.

[Norway]

...either I'm really drunk, or this thread is flying by at a mile a minute.

It is the butterfly effect..

[halvliter'n]

Amigaaaa rulesssss!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CSixx]

I propose that because OP chose to ask how "cool" and "fun" something is (which is ENTIRELY based on opinion), that everyones opinion is on-topic.

Including all the opinions that OS4.1 is inferior to MorphOS.
This entire thread is a predictable result. (and an enjoyable one IMHO).

[Framiga]

I propose that because OP chose to ask how "cool" and "fun" something is (which is ENTIRELY based on opinion), that everyones opinion is on-topic.

Including all the opinions that OS4.1 is inferior to MOS.
This entire thread is a predictable result. (and an enjoyable one IMHO).

is MorphOS not MOS .... do you wanna get other 10 pages of complaints? :rolleyes:

[Karlos]

It's easy to create normal amiga shared libraries with per caller data. bsdsocket.library is a common example, every AmigaOS 3.x installation with a networking installed has such library installed. The added bonus is that you don't need to load the code in memory for every caller, like you have to with AmigaOS 4 SObjects.

Not every shared library can be implemented using old style shared libraries. Consider libstdc++.so, for example.

[gazgod]

From reports everywhere Sam's 800Mhz version run faster than the 667Mhz EP even with no cache at all, but you might be happy to know that the faster CPU in the 460EX DOES have L1+L2  cache (all the better).

@DAX

I fail to see your point.

Of coarse the 800 is faster than 667. Its simple maths. But a slightly faster slow cpu is still a slow cpu.

The 460 isn't for sale yet so its performance is just speculation.

Maybe I've been spoilt but to me its all about the feeling I get when I use an OS. When you own multiple machines running similar OS's Its difficult not to compare them, but ultimately I found I would rather use 3.9 on my classics than OS4  on the Sam (granted my 2 main classics both have 060's) and Morphos on my 1 gig Peg 2 is way out in front as my machine of choice.
I not someone who goes for cpu speed at all costs, I have here a 1.5 Gig G4 mini which I bought new when the Intel version was released, I keep considering putting Morphos on it but my peg is great for my needs.

I wonder if you tried any of the alternatives before putting your cross and sizeable AWN post count behind Sam and OS4?

Gaz