How is OS4 ?

[Piru]

@Piru
You should have been an AmigaOS developer

I was asked actually, I declined. No, I am not going to go into details.

Oh, and I am a MorphOS developer btw, for almost 10 years now.

[DAX]

@DAX

I rarely surf on any Amiga platform except for them aminet and occasional forum visits so OWB was not an issue with me. Neither was UAE, I have several real Amigas for my gaming fix.

A faster CPU with no cache just wastes more clock cycles waiting, If the other speeds are the same it still has to wait the same time.

I still have contact with my ex sam (it went to another member of my user group), And it now has all the updates on it, the most generous thing I can say about it is it slightly improved. But all the points in my post from 2009 are still valid IMHO.

Gaz

From reports everywhere Sam's 800Mhz version run faster than the 667Mhz EP even with no cache at all, but you might be happy to know that the faster CPU in the 460EX DOES have L1+L2  cache (all the better).

[Piru]

@Britelite
i'll have to disagree there, thanks to RunInUae a new app, we get seamless OCS/AGA integration in AOS4, this include disks, HD installations and WHDLoads.

Is that included with the OS? If not, why not? Doesn't Hyperion have all the rights to do that now?

And since we agreed that comparisons are okay, yes, MorphOS does have that same functionality (obviously 3rd party product, and you need to provide the Kickstart ROM by yourself). You can easily run amiga games by just doubleclicking the adf.

[Piru]

From reports everywhere Sam's 800Mhz version run faster than the 667Mhz EP even with no cache at all, but you might be happy to know that the faster CPU in the 460EX DOES have L1+L2  cache (all the better).

Unfortunately even the 460 won't include the Altivec unit. Altivec is essential for things such as multimedia acceleration.

[pVC]

from those who use it, or have in the past, how is amiga OS4 ?

Whats cool and fun ?

Cool thing is that it runs natively on faster and more recent hardware than previous versions and thus is much snappier on everything. And it's easy to install and it contains basic stuff to get started. There's also bit facelifting here and there over OS3.9. Warm reboot speed makes you smile

But it feels still very immature and work is still needed here and there. There's lots of compatibility issues with "classic" software and Workbench itself would need a major rewrite as its functionality is still pretty much on the 3.9's level (which was even itself aged when it was released). Whole feeling is that it's just OS3.9 ported to PPC with lots of 3rd party programs patched up without proper consistency.

If you like later times on classic Amiga (H&P era with Reaction and patches added to OS) and are willing to do some compromises with compatibility and original features against speed and some new features, then you'd probably be happy with it. But if you have been using Workbench replacements like Magellan2 or want some more modern functions in usability and design, then you will be disappointed.

[DAX]

Is that included with the OS? If not, why not? Doesn't Hyperion have all the rights to do that now?

And since we agreed that comparisons are okay, yes, MorphOS does have that same functionality (obviously 3rd party product, and you need to provide the Kickstart ROM by yourself). You can easily run amiga games by just doubleclicking the adf.

I'm afraid we didn't agree on anything in particular, but alas, AmigaOS utilities do far more than doubleclicks on ADFs.
And Yes they do have rights, we'll see if they do it, it was developed recently and might as well be included in  the next major release who knows (Update 2, only updated system files  and changed stuff under the hood).

[Piru]

AmigaOS utilities do far more than doubleclicks on ADFs

Such as?

[DAX]

Unfortunately even the 460 won't include the Altivec unit. Altivec is essential for things such as multimedia acceleration.

Considering that any Amiga app runs quite fast on my SamFlex (including Timberwolf) I can only imagine it will run faster on the 460EX and it might be very good for many, others might choose the X1000 instead.
And before you start with price issues, i will get mine with small monthly fees, a testament that even with little money you can afford a thing you desire (just finished paying for by big Pioneer Kuro plasma, let me tell you, it costed Way more than an X1000  and i am not rich).

[Britelite]

@Britelite
i'll have to disagree there, thanks to RunInUae a new app, we get seamless OCS/AGA integration in AOS4, this include disks, HD installations and WHDLoads.

I'm very aware of this, but as I said, emulation doesn't count as nothing beats the real thing

[Piru]

Considering that any Amiga app runs quite fast on my SamFlex (including Timberwolf) I can only imagine it will run faster on the 460EX and it might be very good for many

Could be, but with the altivec unit it would get a nice boost and thus much more value for the buck. It's a shame really.

There are some other peculiar design choices in this Sam HW which I don't quite understand (for instance the sharing of some PCI-E lanes), but I suppose the demands of the embedded customers set some rules. It's very hard if not impossible to make a profit by creating and selling HW to the amiga market alone, so I guess ACube has to do it to just keep afloat.

[DAX]

I'm very aware of this, but as I said, emulation doesn't count as nothing beats the real thing

If we lived near I would show you my settings as described in the link i posted, I've done my fare share of side by side comparisons demonstrations (Sam+my trusty A2000 underneath) you would be surprised...(Chuck Rock, R-Type, Xenon 2 and more no difference whatsoever running side by side and played with the same joystick, a competition pro standard + USB version).

[DAX]

Such as?

Opening classic apps and let it access AOS volume for data sharing, double click on WHDLoads and HD installations "transported" directly from classic (an A2000 in my case) no further action required, packing of multy disk games in a single file so that you just double click on it, and other amenities.
I don't know if MOS has utilities to do the same, but since you only mentioned double click on ADFs, I listed some different possible operations.

[Piru]

Opening classic apps and let it access AOS volume for data sharing, double click on WHDLoads and HD installations "transported" directly from classic (an A2000 in my case) no further action required, packing of multy disk games in a single file so that you just double click on it, and other amenities.
I don't know if MOS has utilities to do the same, but since you only mentioned double click on ADFs, I listed some different possible operations.

I think all of those work with the MorphOS solution, with the exception of the single archive multidisk thing (but maybe that has been added as well, I haven't kept track of that thing lately).

That being said, the overwhelmingly most common use case is clicking the adf file. That's why I only mentioned it.

[pVC]

Doh.. I tried to keep on topic, but I'll still reply on couple of things... sorry.

And what happens if you need to boot from some other partion for some reason and it does not have SFS? I want to be able to access the old boot partition as well.

What do you mean? There can be many partitions on HD and they can be in whatever filesystem you want. No problem to have FFS, SFS and PFS partitions mixed. Or just have them all SFS for that matter. And any or even all of them can be bootable. I have had SFS and PFS3 partitions on my system for ages.. can't even remember when I had FFS.

All the VMM applications I used on AmigaOS 3 sucked badly. There is a reason almost noone used VMM on AmigaOS 3.

Gigamem worked somehow as expected when I used it for some time. But I tried to have always enough real memory.. Amiga programs didn't need it that much.

On AmigaOS 4, VMM is part of the OS. It's transparent. I hardy see anyone turning it off. Its a nice plus. I prefer to have it, and it works.

On my system it slowed down ramdisk access.. and caused some crashes in low memory situation. I don't like and I definitely don't recommend to use it (why OS4 users are now so in love with it, when they used to hate it on other operating systems? ). OS4 systems usually have at least 512M of ram, so where would you need virtual memory normally? I haven't ran it out ever. Not to talk about 1GB systems I have now.

Not as good as Miami. The AmigaOS 4 TCP/IP stack is even better than Miami in my experience.

In my opinion AmiTCP/IP Genesis is much better than Miami, IF you don't happen to need DHCP or PPPoE. I only used Miami on dialups, but Genesis with network cards.

[drHirudo]

Nothing?

Okay, good answers to the questions. Probably you don't have experience with these, but I have and I know there are problems.

You gave good reasons for using AmigaOS 4. Because on AmigaOS 3, nothing will happen when you try to do some of the tasks. So you will not do the work, where on AmigaOS 4 it will work impeccable.

On AmigaOS 4 everything is more elegant and transparent than on AmigaOS 3. It is more up to date with the current requirements for Operating System. That is why every AmigaOS 3 user will love AmigaOS 4.

Piru, it seems when your OS of choise don't have VMM, nobody shall use it, even with that machine with only 128MB of RAM? My machine have only 256 MB RAM. VMM came in handly when I compiled the SAM Coupe emulator. For image processing VMM is even more handy.

Also, you deliberately skipped some of my points, but seeing that your OS of choise lacks them, it is quite understandable. Good move actually.

[rebraist]

For almost a year i've read all of you.
About a year ago I was considering to buy something "amigish", a sam, a peg or somethin'similar.
Naturally, as most of you, i come from the classic era, and as someone of you, never tried ppcs because amiga died, to me, with classic machines.
But my passion never died, so i followed on the internet amiga facts, forum and here we are.
With three (or perhaps four (beos-haiku), maybe five (anubi)?) amiga sons.
The black, the red, the blue.
Everyone of them is "amiga" in the eyes of their user.
Btw i'm an aros enthusiast, but i understand those who love the red, the blue, the yellow and the submarine.
These "os wars" are simply useless.
Simply because whazz amiga? A feeling?
Well, a feeling is something of individual, personal and there's no rational, logical reasons to be better or worse than others. To my eyes amiga is aros. Someone else would prefer aos4, someone else morphos, someone else uae. "This is feeling".
Amiga is an os? Well. If it is a brand, the only amiga os "eventually" is aos. No way to the others.
Amiga is hw? Well, the only hw amiga is that dead so long ago. The amiga one specs belong to a group who betrayed amigans expectations more and more and more.
The original amiga was feeling, os and hw.
Nothing else can tell the same of itself
Noone of them can say to be 20 years beyond their time
edit: i've forgotten "to me"