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Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2010, 06:19:47 PM »
Quote from: BigBenAussie;561690
Ok @abbub
How do you recreate a Commodore 64? I'm listening.

Not one of those lame Webit things with a c64 emulator and a browser I hope.
You want something that evokes the spirit of the C64...then how?
How can you do it differently to what everyone else is doing.
You want Commodore to go into the OS business. The perfect OS... where is it then?
Hell, if Hyperion had an x86 version of AmigaOS, you don't think Commodore wouldn't come calling?

You want what people will regard as "just another unix", with a bit of retro eye-candy on top. But how is that different? You could make yet another Linux distro. But so what. At least AROS has retro going for it and being a clone of Commodore's AmigaOS is something at least. It lacks things but is developing quickly and modern enough to be used today. It's simple and lightening quick, and I thought that was what we all loved about AmigaOS.

Many people have made the point that hardware no longer sells a computer.  It is software, simple as that.  Amiga was the last time I intentionally bought hardware.  When I moved to Apple I bought a Power Computing clone.  When apple yanked the clone licenses, I went straight to COSTCO and bought the cheapest fastest pentium they had.  After that I have built every computer I owned since out of the cheapest/best parts, regardless of manufature and thrown either windows or linux on them.  I am more dedicated to the software I run independent of the OS.  For example, I have Gimp on all my win/lin/mac boxen.  I like Firefox exclusively.

For Commodore to make any serious headway into the "Lookit me!" market, its going to need to be the size of a Pip-Boy, display images softwired to your neural network directly into your brain, have terabyte upon terabyte of data storage/access ability, communicate with anyone or anything telepathically, and cost 200 bucks.  IMHO.
 

Offline persia

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Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2010, 08:09:04 PM »
I wonder what sales of this thing have been so far?  The Amazon page isn't exactly overflowing with comments.  People will likely say oh look a commodore and get it home to discover that it's a netbook sans screen.

Oh and I wouldn't count on OS X, Apple has removed support for the Atom processor.
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Offline BigBenAussieTopic starter

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Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2010, 08:18:36 PM »
Quote
Oh and I wouldn't count on OS X, Apple has removed support for the Atom processor.
The MacOSX compatiblity is with the Commodore 64bit Phoenix.
I wasn't suggesting MacOSX as an OS for the Commodore Invictus.
 

Offline Piru

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Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2010, 08:21:05 PM »
Quote from: BigBenAussie;561678
I post here voluntarily as a Commodore fan.

Okay. I almost got the impression that you were actively marketing the product for Commodore USA. Didn't I also see pretty much identical posts to amigaworld.net, as well?

Oh well, I guess it's just enthusiasm.
 

Offline Piru

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Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
« Reply #63 on: May 28, 2010, 08:40:44 PM »
Quote from: BigBenAussie;561674
Ya see, he's got nothing to hide.
In the name of this openness, lets also link to:
Commodore Gaming disavows Commodore USA (and its decals)

My favorite part:
Quote
Your purchase, according to the site, "will not be branded with the Commodore logo or markings. These self-adhesive logo label plates will be shipped to you at no charge when they are available."
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 08:42:47 PM by Piru »
 

Offline BigBenAussieTopic starter

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Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2010, 08:59:32 PM »
Quote from: Piru;561743
In the name of this openness, lets also link to:
Commodore Gaming disavows Commodore USA (and its decals)

My favorite part:

To clarify for the umpteenth time. They disavow Commodore USA and its decals, because Commodore Gaming *don't* actually have the rights to give to Commodore USA. A so-called journalist comes along and Commodore Gaming goes all Shultz "I know nuttin... nuttin". And this is suddenly a headline. WTF. Now that Commodore USA is talking to the right people, has talked to the right people, and only needs to sign on the dotted line, why are we still talking about this? The contract is all there, they're just working out the little details, options and exact figures. These things don't seem to go as snappy as everyone would like and I am sure lawyers make a killing from these kinds of things. It's only a couple of weeks away, for crying out loud.

Quote
Your purchase, according to the site, "will not be branded with the Commodore logo or markings. These self-adhesive logo label plates will be shipped to you at no charge when they are available."

They already have an arrangement for the logos in the meantime, and the logos are pre-attached to the machine now.
There are no stickers that you need to stick on yourself. You are referring to what was on the site from a couple of months ago and those units were considered pre-orders.
Are you suggesting it is wrong to tell people what is going on and what to expect. It hasn't been there for weeks at least.
To all intents and purposes the trademark negotiations are not really holding up anything. It will be all wrapped up well before the official launch Commodore are considering.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 09:07:07 PM by BigBenAussie »
 

Offline Piru

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Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2010, 09:01:15 PM »
Quote from: BigBenAussie;561745
The contract is all there
Is it? So if I check again after 2 weeks and they still don't have a contract what then? 2 months?

This is the guy who put a logo on their website without any permission to do so. Just to see if anyone would care. This is NOT how you do things.

I'll believe it when the party granting the license says it is ok, not before.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 09:08:18 PM by Piru »
 

Offline BigBenAussieTopic starter

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Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2010, 09:26:56 PM »
@Piru
Fine with me. What can I say?
They should rush the deal through just so you will buy one. ;-)
They come with totally legal logos right now with the rightsholders permission. Otherwise you would see a lawsuit of some kind. But you don't. If you are so afraid they won't keep the trademark rights for whatever reason. Maybe you should hurry up and buy one while you can. ;-)
 

Offline Piru

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Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2010, 09:29:21 PM »
Quote from: BigBenAussie;561754
@Piru
They come with totally legal logos right now with the rightsholders permission.
BTW is there confirmation that they actually have this permission? I hope it isn't one sided announcement from Commodore USA...

No lawsuit doesn't count as one.
 

Offline persia

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Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2010, 09:30:03 PM »
It appears that "Commodore" USA intends to be a distributor for all the screen-less laptops that are currently being made....

I do admire the fact that they don't hide the fact that they are redistributing other companies' products under the Commodore name.  They do get a point for honesty for that....
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Offline BigBenAussieTopic starter

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Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2010, 09:31:50 PM »
Quote
BTW is there confirmation that they actually have this permission?

No lawsuit doesn't count as one.
Arrrgh.. I'm going to bed. I've had enough.
I'll be sure to give the rights holders your e-mail so they can clear it with you. ;-)
 

Offline kolla

Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2010, 10:33:09 PM »
Quote from: BigBenAussie;561745
why are we still talking about this?


Indeed, 5 pages about a silly PC, way too much.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
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Offline abbub

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Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
« Reply #71 on: May 29, 2010, 12:13:01 AM »
Quote from: BigBenAussie;561690
Ok @abbub
How do you recreate a Commodore 64? I'm listening.


...because I'm bored, I'll do a little brainstorming.

How much capital do I have?  What's my target demographic?  Who should I view as my competitors?

Assuming I have unlimited capital...

First and foremost, I buy up every license I have to until I'm the SOLE copyright owner to the Commodore/CBM name.  With unlimited capital, this means I'd be buying all of the various 'Amiga' names, too, and also probably Cloanto.

It almost seems that the current owner somehow thinks that Apple, HP, Dell, Lenova, etc. are who he's up against.   I think that, to a SMALL extent, Apple might be, but certainly not HP, Dell, Lenova, etc.

The C64 is, in my mind, an oddity in that it not only competed against Apple (and IBM) back in the day, but also against Atari, Nintendo, and Sega.  That is to say, it's a computer, sure, but it's primarily an entertainment computer.  (Okay, I guess that was true of all computers of the era to some extent, but in my mind, the C64 was better at it than other computers...)

I'd say that our new C64 should largely be designed to be used on a television, in the living room, rather than in the study.  Towards that end, I really see Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft as my three largest competitors.  I'm not saying the new Commodore should be designed as a console, but rather that it's chief competition for the time and money of a perspective buyer are these other consoles, and that should garner some serious consideration when the feature set is planned.  Wireless HDMI, high-def video playing capability, and wireless internet access would probably be must-haves.

I'd say that our new C64 should also be designed to be SIMPLE.  The OS should include a modern browser, a capable email client, and a word processor capable of loading and saving office compatible documents.  Creating a Commodore version of iLife would be a good idea, because initially the amount of software for this beast is going to be limited, so why not give the consumer what they need out of the box.  I'd say that if you could include 10 revamped versions of iconic C64 games that'd be perfect.  I'd also borrow heavily from Apple/nintendo/microsoft and have a Commodore version of iTunes/Wiistore/Xbox Arcade where you could, for a small fee (a dollar or two a game?) download classic C64 games in some sort of encapsulated format that includes the documentation in a PDF format and a simple click-to-play format.  No fooling around with setting up emulators.  Every game you buy comes ready to play without your having to fool around with anything.  In addition to repackaged classic games running in emulators, you'd also want to give developers the opportunity to sell 'modern' games designed to take advantage of the hardware.

The more I think about it (again, pretending that capital is no problem), the more I REALLY like the idea of using BEOS as the core of my operating system and having Windows-support available as a 'boot camp' sort of option.  I'd also pull an Apple and work hard to keep my OS off of other hardware.   99.9% of the reason to buy Apple hardware is the desire to run Apple software.  I'd say the goal with our Commodore OS should be the same.

The aesthetics of our C64 should be a nice, simple homage to the original breadbox.  I'd hire the best design team I could find and give them pictures of the original breadbox, with instructions to 'modernize and pay homage'.  There should be 0% doubt that the finished product is the 2010 version of the C64, and there's a lot more to that than just being a keyboard with a system board integrated.

I think I'd dub the system the Commodore 1024.  Give it a medium powered Atom and a gig of memory.  In 6 months, we'll launch the Commodore 2048d, which is a desktop system with wireless mouse/keyboard, a more powerful Atom, 2 Gigs of memory, and an available matching 24" 1080p LCD panel. :)

Don't even get me started on a year or two down the road, when we start taking advantage of those Amiga trademarks we bought up today. :D
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Offline Arkhan

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Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
« Reply #72 on: May 29, 2010, 01:52:13 AM »
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;561697
Many people have made the point that hardware
For Commodore to make any serious headway into the "Lookit me!" market, its going to need to be the size of a Pip-Boy, display images softwired to your neural network directly into your brain, have terabyte upon terabyte of data storage/access ability, communicate with anyone or anything telepathically, and cost 200 bucks.  IMHO.


Man, THAT would be the example to end all examples for "The Commodore is Keeping up with you"


The days of specialized hardware for daily computing are done.  The expandability of the modern PC destroyed all possibility of a brand-computer ever succeeding.
I am a negative, rude, prick.  


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Offline haywirepc

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Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
« Reply #73 on: May 29, 2010, 02:52:39 AM »
What a bunch of absolute rubbish this so called company is.
 
Somehow I'm a troll because I'm pointing out the truth?

This guy took so far near as I can tell 3 different off the shelf already existing computers, which you can buy much much cheaper elsewhere, then called them new products, making up fancy new names.
 
He can't legally even use the name or trademarks for commodore (yet) as admitted but is still doing so. In my view, thats not just misleading, not just not immoral, but it is also completely illegal. Hey he will include some commodore stickers you can slap on these things. I can print my own fake commodore stickers if I want to pretend my off the shelf pc is a commodore new computer, thank you.
 
Pardon me for pointing out the truth here. I'll try to remain quiet in the future when my bull*!#! detector goes off, but this company makes that detector go off like crazy.
 
My favorite part is that they send stupid people to forums like this, where they should know that people will see through this scam to promote this nonsense. Its just ridiculous.
 
Steven
 

Offline Amiga_Nut

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Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
« Reply #74 from previous page: May 29, 2010, 03:53:02 AM »
Quote from: abbub;561780
...because I'm bored, I'll do a little brainstorming.

How much capital do I have?  What's my target demographic?  Who should I view as my competitors?

Assuming I have unlimited capital...

First and foremost, I buy up every license I have to until I'm the SOLE copyright owner to the Commodore/CBM name.  With unlimited capital, this means I'd be buying all of the various 'Amiga' names, too, and also probably Cloanto.

It almost seems that the current owner somehow thinks that Apple, HP, Dell, Lenova, etc. are who he's up against.   I think that, to a SMALL extent, Apple might be, but certainly not HP, Dell, Lenova, etc.

The C64 is, in my mind, an oddity in that it not only competed against Apple (and IBM) back in the day, but also against Atari, Nintendo, and Sega.  That is to say, it's a computer, sure, but it's primarily an entertainment computer.  (Okay, I guess that was true of all computers of the era to some extent, but in my mind, the C64 was better at it than other computers...)

I'd say that our new C64 should largely be designed to be used on a television, in the living room, rather than in the study.  Towards that end, I really see Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft as my three largest competitors.  I'm not saying the new Commodore should be designed as a console, but rather that it's chief competition for the time and money of a perspective buyer are these other consoles, and that should garner some serious consideration when the feature set is planned.  Wireless HDMI, high-def video playing capability, and wireless internet access would probably be must-haves.

I'd say that our new C64 should also be designed to be SIMPLE.  The OS should include a modern browser, a capable email client, and a word processor capable of loading and saving office compatible documents.  Creating a Commodore version of iLife would be a good idea, because initially the amount of software for this beast is going to be limited, so why not give the consumer what they need out of the box.  I'd say that if you could include 10 revamped versions of iconic C64 games that'd be perfect.  I'd also borrow heavily from Apple/nintendo/microsoft and have a Commodore version of iTunes/Wiistore/Xbox Arcade where you could, for a small fee (a dollar or two a game?) download classic C64 games in some sort of encapsulated format that includes the documentation in a PDF format and a simple click-to-play format.  No fooling around with setting up emulators.  Every game you buy comes ready to play without your having to fool around with anything.  In addition to repackaged classic games running in emulators, you'd also want to give developers the opportunity to sell 'modern' games designed to take advantage of the hardware.

The more I think about it (again, pretending that capital is no problem), the more I REALLY like the idea of using BEOS as the core of my operating system and having Windows-support available as a 'boot camp' sort of option.  I'd also pull an Apple and work hard to keep my OS off of other hardware.   99.9% of the reason to buy Apple hardware is the desire to run Apple software.  I'd say the goal with our Commodore OS should be the same.

The aesthetics of our C64 should be a nice, simple homage to the original breadbox.  I'd hire the best design team I could find and give them pictures of the original breadbox, with instructions to 'modernize and pay homage'.  There should be 0% doubt that the finished product is the 2010 version of the C64, and there's a lot more to that than just being a keyboard with a system board integrated.

I think I'd dub the system the Commodore 1024.  Give it a medium powered Atom and a gig of memory.  In 6 months, we'll launch the Commodore 2048d, which is a desktop system with wireless mouse/keyboard, a more powerful Atom, 2 Gigs of memory, and an available matching 24" 1080p LCD panel. :)

Don't even get me started on a year or two down the road, when we start taking advantage of those Amiga trademarks we bought up today. :D


You expect to compete on equal terms with a $150 Xbox360 for gaming/home entertainment using an Intel Atom based solution? Don't think you've thought this out well ;) Doesn't have to be a C64 specific successor, it's only now that Commodore and Amiga are two distinct brands.

IF, and I do say if, there was ever to be a machine which is a spiritual successor to the Amiga/C64 again you would need something pretty special. It would need to be priced half way between an Xbox 360 and a PC capable of running DX10 games like Alan Wake at 50-60FPS, so that would be approx $800 minimum. It would need to cost half way between the two....so about $300-400.

And then....you would have to do something innovative with the OS and applications. In 1985-87 on an A1000 you could digitise photo-realistic images, sample sounds for instruments in music, create cartoon animations or photo montages etc all using the best ideas like a GUI desktop with multi-tasking. Also unlike PCs it was a simple case of popping in your game disk and playing a game fuss free like a console (after loading KS once with on screen graphical prompt).

What could you do with your 1984 Mac 128k? Nothing much beyond playing with the GUI OS really. And your DOS/Windows v1/v2 8086 PC? Bugger all except boring office stuff and some rubbish CGA ports of classic arcade games like Zaxxon or text adventures from Infocom.

Anyway OS X/Linux/Windows (any) can happily do anything 99% of the Facebook/MSN generation today want to do. OK some do it faster/more reliably than others but the difference is unless you really put in 25 years of OS advancement since the GEM/Mac/Amiga time of 1985 like things bordering on artificial intelligence built into the OS you can't claim your OS is doing something other machines can't. And that's the difference today.

And Microsoft/Sony will not licence their console motherboards for you to write an OS and sell as a rebranded machine and there is no way to build a PC with that sort of power and features within the $150-200 gross cost.

So you are basically screwed on the hardware price/performance AND the OS. That's why today we are back to the pre C64 days of expensive gaming rigs and functionally competent consoles for a fraction of the cost of high end computers but sod all computer like functionality and freedom. There is no best of both worlds type hybrid for less than equivalent PC/Mac.

Atom CPUd low end stuff is paired with a purchase of an xbox 360 to meet gamers needs. So they can play stunning games and watch 1080p media but still also blog on Facebook/surf the web/chat on MSN etc.