Who owns Amiga Intellectual Property

[ajk]

@STUser

OS4 will run most software that runs on modern classic Amigas. A basic A1200 is not a modern classic Amiga, but an A1200 with a fast accelerator and a graphics card is reasonably modern and most software, including games, that works on one of those will also work on OS4.

As long as your system isn't already badly outdated, the transition will be fairly smooth. The OS itself has all that OS3.9 does, with a lot of improvements.

There is UAE of course for old games and stuff, but it will need an update.

[Jose]

AOS4 or MOS /AROS for that matter will run any program that uses the OS and doesn't bang the hardware directly. So if the application is old doesn't matter, there are some old apps that used the OS.

[Seehund]

STUser wrote:

Would someone with an A1200 be able to easily migrate to the new Amigas?

Who is manufacturing them?

What is the commercial channel for them (distribution-wise)?

I'm not trying to be obtuse here, I am just trying to figure out how one would go about evaluating and buying one of these mythical beasties.  

There will be no more "Amigas", in the sense of hardware made with AmigaOS in mind, designed or specified by a central Commodore-like "Amiga company". Amiga, Inc. does not have anything to do with hardware.

AmigaOS 4 and beyond will instead finally run on third party hardware. The first target for porting will be the Mai Logic Teron series motherboards, which also are distributed under an "AmigaOne" trademark. Of course things like Apple Macs and Genesi Pegasoses would be other obvious target hardware platforms for a PPC desktop OS like this.

Good news so far, but IMO the advantages of finally getting away from only "Amiga specific" hardware are made moot by a compulsory licensing scheme, created by/in cooperation with the distributor of these "AmigaOne" boards:

A prospective AmigaOS user may only buy his hardware from a dealer with an Amiga, Inc. distribution license, and AmigaOS will not be for sale separately to be installed on the exact same hardware sold by a normal, "unlicensed" dealer.

To get such a distributor license, the hardware dealer must provide a hardware market control device (a.k.a. "anti-piracy protection" allegedly to protect AmigaOS(!) - currently this consists of added code to the hardware's firmware to prove it's bought on a restricted "Amiga" market), he must bundle AmigaOS and provide end-user support for that, and pay a license fee for using the "Amiga" trademark.

I think it's pretty damn obvious that this can accomplish nothing but to reduce the number of platforms AmigaOS will be ported to, it'll reduce the number of hardware vendor options for already chosen target platforms, it'll increase hardware prices, and it makes the reviving AmIgaOS excercise rather futile, as all this makes sure it can never gain market share over the current insignificant numbers. All that's come out of it is an artificially created hardware market for selling a few hundred $500 motherboards at $800.

Funnily enough, no other licensee exists but the company that helped with consultation when the scheme was created. I can't see why Mai Logic, Apple or Genesi aren't jumping at this fantastic opportunity...

I think there could be success selling Amigas as user-level machines that lack the "Microsoft tax" -- a Macintosh for less, if you will.   :-)

If someone would get licensed for selling Mac hardware to us stupid AmigaOS users who don't know how to buy hardware, it'd be "a Macintosh for more". Just like it's "a Teron for more" right now.

Anyway, see this site of mine, or the site in my .sig for more. This has been discussed over and over again here, which I'm sure someone will point out sooner or later...

[STUser]

mac 68k to ppc transition almost (IF NOT) killed APPLE , mostly because their 68k stuff didnt work on ppc macs.

Wow, that couldn't be more wrong!  The Mac OS 7.5.3 and 7.5.5 that worked on the first Power Macs WAS mostly 68K code.  Apple Power Macs out of the box could run 68K and PPC code via Apple's emulator.  The first 601-based PowerMacs ran 68K MacOS applications faster than top of the line Quadras.

you need to do some research before u say stuff like that...

I owned one of the first PowerMacs, so I think that qualifies.  :-D

anyway later on they made several ways of getting more and more 68k stuff to work on ppc

Actually, that's inaccurate as well.  They worked hard to get RID of 68K code on the legacy Mac OS.  OS 7.6 was the first classic OS to have more PPC code than 68K code, and it wasn't until 8.0 that 68K was completely expunged.

its taken them long and infact its not perfect now even..

Actually, it's old hat now.  If you want to run a 68K app on a present PowerBook or Power Mac, you need to run it within the Classic OS environment under Mac OS X.

the last post was aimed at STUser and so is this one,  since you know so much about mac and how the transition in 95-97 went on...

I got a Macintosh when the Atari scene started slowing down in the mid 1990s.

please tell me how they ran 68k stuff on the ppc

Native seamless software emulation within the "Classic" (9.x and under) Mac OS.  For a while, whilst 68K Macs were still popular, developers shipped "fat binaries" that included 68K and PPC code in one package.  That's long since unnecessary, since 68K hasn't been supported since, I believe, 8.0.

oh and how do they do it now?

Software emulation built into the Classic OS (frozen at 9.2.x).  When you boot an old legacy Mac application under OS X, it starts an instance of "Classic" (which is basically a sand box within which an entire instance of Mac OS 9.2 runs).  Then your 68K app runs under the 9.2 OS running within the Classic environment under OS X.  Confused yet?   ;-)

I think the 68K emulation also can be called from within OS X, but am not sure.  There are 68K emulators that work under OS X, like NoSTalgia (ST emulator) and, of course, UAE.

[STUser]

If someone would get licensed for selling Mac hardware to us stupid AmigaOS users who don't know how to buy hardware, it'd be "a Macintosh for more". Just like it's "a Teron for more" right now.

Hmmm. . . would the PegasOS or Amiga OS 4 run on UAE running on a Macintosh?

I'd love to play with the new "Amiga" OS (much like I play with the new "Atari" OS, MagicMac) but I cannot imagine forking over for another system with components that I already mostly have in my old Titanium G4 PowerBook.

Besides, I am saving up for one of those new 12" ones.   ;-)

[Van_M]

Neither the amigaOS 4.0 or MorphOS (Pegasos is the name of the hardware that Morphos runs on) will run on UAE for mac.  UAE emulates the 68k hardware (custom chipsets etc.) while the above mentioned OS'es are PPC native. The best chance you can have is that some "pirate" group wil make a solution like MacOnLinux but the other way around (morphos on mac) OR an installer disc that tricks the proprietary dongles on the mac firmware and installs Morphos while the firmware thinks it's installing MacOS X. AmigaOS doesn't have a chance going to the macs. Even for Pegasos the chances are quite slim.

If I'm wrong to any of the above, please correct me :-).

[Hammer]

STUser wrote:

If someone would get licensed for selling Mac hardware to us stupid AmigaOS users who don't know how to buy hardware, it'd be "a Macintosh for more". Just like it's "a Teron for more" right now.

Hmmm. . . would the PegasOS or Amiga OS 4 run on UAE running on a Macintosh?

The current UAE (e.g. WinUAE) doesn’t emulate PowerPC processor, thus no go for AmigaOS 4.0 (PowerPC edition).

It’s possible one could program MOL like virtualisation box on any PPC HW (with sufficient computing power), but such action may involve compromising the copy protection of AmigaOS 4.0 thus breaking DRM.

[Jope]

Actually, that's inaccurate as well. They worked hard to get RID of 68K code on the legacy Mac OS. OS 7.6 was the first classic OS to have more PPC code than 68K code, and it wasn't until 8.0 that 68K was completely expunged.

:-D

Why can I run MacOS 8.0 in a 68k Mac emulator then? Even 8.1 works.

8.5 was the first PPC only MacOS..

What was thrown out in 8.0 was code supporting CPUs under 68030 (officially pre 040, but 8.0 and 8.1 have been shown to run on 030 Macs)

[whabang]

Jope wrote:

Actually, that's inaccurate as well. They worked hard to get RID of 68K code on the legacy Mac OS. OS 7.6 was the first classic OS to have more PPC code than 68K code, and it wasn't until 8.0 that 68K was completely expunged.

:-D

Why can I run MacOS 8.0 in a 68k Mac emulator then? Even 8.1 works.

8.5 was the first PPC only MacOS..

What was thrown out in 8.0 was code supporting CPUs under 68030 (officially pre 040, but 8.0 and 8.1 have been shown to run on 030 Macs)

AFAIK, All versions of OS8 were distributed in both 68k and PPC versions...
They were developed in paralell, just as Apple is rumored to keep an x86 version of all it's OS'es.
(Well Darwin exist for PC aswell, right?)

[Tomas]

So no backward compatibility with any old Amiga applications?

OS4 will run ppc amiga software aswell aswell as some 68k software through some emulation layer

No common hardware? A totally new OS?

It is the same OS.. It has just been ported to ppc  :-)

Isn't this the equivalent of "Amiga" selling a rebranded e-Machines Wintel Box with XP and UAE and calling it an "Amiga"?

Not at all.. This machine runs the real AmigaOS and also runs ppc software natively. Do you really expect a system based on the highly outdated 68k cpu?? a cpu that has not been produced since ages? whats the point with "new" hardware that still uses the same outdated chips as the classic system? then you could just aswell just use a classic one..

What do you Amiga folk think of this? What keeps you with Amiga if they're making completely incompatible hardware and software?

Incompatible with what? AmigaONE cannot run classic amiga 68k software without emulation, since the PPC cpu is a totally different processor.. The amigaone runs software that is written for native ppc without any emulation.
Same story with macs also when they changed to ppc cpus..
 

What makes an Amiga an Amiga?

The name.. and also the fact that it runs AmigaOS

No, because the transition was seamless. All the classic Mac 68K apps worked perfectly on the Mac OS for PowerPC. I think that's a little different than a completely new platform that keeps the brand and has an emulator for legacy apps.

Why do you think 68k apps worked under ppc? EMULATION!! just as AmigaOS/AmigaONE will have...

Hmmm. . . would the PegasOS or Amiga OS 4 run on UAE running on a Macintosh?

Sadly not  :-(  Since UAE does not have PPC emulation yet.. Hopefully it will have one day though  :-)

[bloodline]

whabang wrote:

Jope wrote:

Actually, that's inaccurate as well. They worked hard to get RID of 68K code on the legacy Mac OS. OS 7.6 was the first classic OS to have more PPC code than 68K code, and it wasn't until 8.0 that 68K was completely expunged.

:-D

Why can I run MacOS 8.0 in a 68k Mac emulator then? Even 8.1 works.

8.5 was the first PPC only MacOS..

What was thrown out in 8.0 was code supporting CPUs under 68030 (officially pre 040, but 8.0 and 8.1 have been shown to run on 030 Macs)

AFAIK, All versions of OS8 were distributed in both 68k and PPC versions...
They were developed in paralell, just as Apple is rumored to keep an x86 version of all it's OS'es.
(Well Darwin exist for PC aswell, right?)

Of course Apple keep x86 (I imagine an x86-64 one) version of all the software.... Apple are not stupid, they probably have Sh*tHot PPC emulation in there as well, if the PPC bubble were to burst (not saying it will), they would jump ship in no time.

They probably have x86 versions of all their computer models in reserve too.

Apple (more specifically Steve Jobs) are a very clever company, and they would not let a simple thing like the death of a CPU get in their way.